Vow of poverty question


Rules Questions


I know they cannot own equipment, and have to give up their material quest rewards to charity, but could a monk with VoP be granted permanency spell effects as rewards, aka "favors of gratitude" if the rewarding npc is/has access to wizard abilities? Or would this break the spirit of the feat?

Grand Lodge

What feat?


flamewolf393 wrote:
I know they cannot own equipment, and have to give up their material quest rewards to charity, but could a monk with VoP be granted permanency spell effects as rewards, aka "favors of gratitude" if the rewarding npc is/has access to wizard abilities? Or would this break the spirit of the feat?

Do you mean the 3.5 feat from Book of Exalted deeds?


As far as I can tell there is nothing that stops you from having spells permancied.

Grand Lodge

Are you discussing 3.5 material?


There is also a pathfinder version of it. Instead of adding abilities/stats, it adds to the monks ki pool.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-a rchetypes/monk-vows/vow-of-poverty

Grand Lodge

That is not a feat though.


Oh... so it's not. Oops. Anyway though, the question still stands. Would a monk with that feature be able to accept magic effects with permanency?


I guess it depends on your definition of Wealth. Spellcasting has a set price, so I would definitely consider having permanent spells cast upon you to be Wealth. One could argue, however, that if it was simply given as a gift, since it could not be transferred in anyway, it would be acceptable, since it is not really an asset of any kind.

I think the spirit of the rule could be argued either way.

Ask your GM.


I am the DM. I am trying to come up with a fair ruling on the matter.


After reading through the description on Vow of Poverty, I think its acceptable. It isn't material wealth, which is what the Vow is preventing the monk from having.

Just keep in mind that the permanent spells can be dispelled and/or disjuncted.


I'd allow it.

There aren't too many permanent spells you can cast on others. For a monk, Magic Fang and Resistance comes to mind. Not too powerful as a gift/reward at the appropiate level.

And, like Ganny said, it can be dispelled.


Yes.. as long as the player doesn't ask for it himself, but thankful_the_mage has no other way of helping/thanking him :)


I'd say allow it. Vow of Poverty is to prevent material wealth, not all wealth.

After all, isn't one with spiritual enlightenment through the abstention of material goods the wealthiest of all?


flamewolf393 wrote:
I am the DM. I am trying to come up with a fair ruling on the matter.

In real life, a Vow of Poverty actually removes your rights of ownership--it's not that you can't have wealth, it's that you can't have at all. Any gift received by someone under a solemn vow of poverty becomes property of their monestary or convent.

Basically, their superior (the abbot or mother superior) controls the entire monestary's property (though personally owns nothing himself) and distributes it/adjucates its use to best serve the needs of the monastery.

So, to me, that's the spirit of the rule.

In the case of permanent spells, you definitely can't buy them or ask for them. If one was offered as an unsolicited gift, I would think the proper answer would be to consult your superior to make sure you're the best person in the monastery to receive the gift.

In cases where that is not feasible, then no, I do not think the Monk's Vow would be broken by having a permanent spell cast on him. It's not an asset--it can't be traded once cast--and if it was unsolicited, it was not purchased, so I think it'd be fine.

So, if an NPC wizard or druid or whatever offered a permanent buff as a reward, I think it'd be ok. If the Monk's player bugs the party wizard to give his character unsolicited permanent buffs, then I think that does violate the spirit.


Thanks so much for your advice guys. I had been thinking of allowing it anyway, had just wanted to see if there was a ruling or common consensus on it.

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