| Grick |
Say a tiger bites someone then grabs them and maintains the next turn, what happens next?
When it maintains the grapple, it can Move, Damage, Pin, or Tie Up the victim as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple.
Does the tiger automatically do the bite, claw, claw damage?
No, just one of those, if it elects to use the Damage option.
Does it have to roll attacks?
No, that's included in maintaining the grapple.
Is the bite included or excluded as the "holding body part"?
I'm not sure what you mean by this.
What about Rake? How does it work? 5 attacks total?
Rake (Ex): "A creature with this special attack gains extra natural attacks under certain conditions, typically when it grapples its foe. In addition to the options available to all grapplers, a monster with the rake ability gains two free claw attacks that it can use only against a grappled foe. The bonus and damage caused by these attacks is included in the creature's description. A monster with the rake ability must begin its turn already grappling to use its rake—it can't begin a grapple and rake in the same turn."
If it has Rake, then when it maintains the grapple, it can also make two free claw attacks as it says in the statblock. These attacks will need attack rolls even if you choose the Damage option.
Ninjaiguana
|
Say a tiger bites someone then grabs them and maintains the next turn, what happens next?
Does the tiger automatically do the bite, claw, claw damage?
Does it have to roll attacks?
Is the bite included or excluded as the "holding body part"?
What about Rake? How does it work? 5 attacks total?
If the tiger maintains then it can't take a full attack. It can choose to deal damage as if it had hit the creature it's grappling with one of its attacks. This can be its bite, or either claw. No attack roll is made for this; the maintain roll is treated as the successful attack roll.
It then gets to make attack rolls with its 2 rakes as a free action.
That's it.
| MacGurcules |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
...If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text)...
On a successful maintain, Grab deals damage automatically based on attack that landed the grapple. This is in addition to the options allowed from succeeding the check.
So if a tiger landed the Grab with its bite, on the next round it would spend its standard action to roll one grapple attempt to maintain at an additional +5. If that check succeeds, it automatically does bite damage and then can choose to move, pin, or deal damage again. There isn't any restriction that the Grab-ing attack can't also be used to deal this optional damage. Then it rolls two claw attacks for Rake as free actions.
Since it spent its standard action on maintaining the grapple, it wouldn't be able to make any regular attacks beyond those allowed in the grapple.
Thamius
|
This is why some people argue that maintaining a grapple is a suboptimal strategy. At the beginning of its turn the tiger can release the grapple as a free action and then make a full attack. If it hits with the bite again it can then make another grapple check! Rinse and repeat until dinner is sufficiently tenderized.
| MacGurcules |
This is why some people argue that maintaining a grapple is a suboptimal strategy. At the beginning of its turn the tiger can release the grapple as a free action and then make a full attack. If it hits with the bite again it can then make another grapple check! Rinse and repeat until dinner is sufficiently tenderized.
That's sort of beneficial for creatures with several attacks and constrict. But for a tiger, it's better to just keep the grapple. A stationary tiger taking a full-attack gets three attacks. A grappling tiger gets more damage at the same or higher attack bonus and locks down an opponent in the process.
| MacGurcules |
I suppose the description on Rake is vague enough that you could do it that way. It feels like it's supposed to be used in conjunction with a grapple maintenance check, but it just says that they're used against a grappled foe rather than in conjunction with a grapple action. And the rules haven't ever been clear about when in your turn a grapple ends if you do not choose to maintain it.
Interestingly, the description is loose enough that a creature with Rake could begin its turn grappling a monster and use its Rake attacks against an adjacent creature that is also being grappled by a different creature.
Still, I'd prefer to get potentially four attacks worth of damage with three rolls instead five attacks on six rolls.
| Night_Shade |
I think I understand how the grapple works, but I want to use an example I may run thru my party.
Group is going to encounter some giant scorpions which have a grab ability with their claws as shown
Melee 2 claws +6 (1d6+4 plus grab), sting +6 (1d6+4 plus poison)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks constrict (1d6+4).
So if the scorpion attacks and hits with the claw then they can initiate a grab at that point? or do they attack and then on their next turn initiate the grab?
To initiate the grab (similar to grapple?) the scorpion rolls its CMB against the PCs CMD ?
If above is tru then they just have to do that again on their turn to automatically do 1d6+4 damage?
Now if the above works how would the PC in the scorpions grab try to break free? Just looking for the basic simple answer, no one has improved grapple or if they were flying or if they were this or that. I have read some of these and most always have something added that is not regarding the original post :-(