Witch Sleep Hex + Marionette Possesion = Fun ?

[Phasics]

So

Witch sleep hex vs enemy NPC, fail save = unconscious

next round

Cast Marionette Possession against unconscious enemy target.

And smile as the enemy has one of its own start laying down the smack on them ?

Assuming that works would the effect end if the conditions to wake someone from a sleep hex are met or once your in, your in, until the duration expires or you decide to leave ?

Also just a side question how can the spell call for a willing creature and also grant a will save ? does one not negate the other ?

[mplindustries]

1) Once you're in, you're in.

2) The will save is almost certainly there for this very circumstance.

[pauljathome]

mplindustries wrote:

1) Once you're in, you're in.

2) The will save is almost certainly there for this very circumstance.

The fact that the character is asleep does NOT mean that they don't get a will save. Saving throws automatically occur unless the character consciously chooses to not save.

While its not clear, I think that I'd interpret the will save clause as meaning that the puppet can choose to try and end the effect and, if they save, they do so. As far as I can see the target MUST be willing for the effect to commence.

[Malag]

Target for Marionette Possesion needs to be willing target. Conscious or unconscious doesn't remove that effect.

[Cheapy]

Regarding unconscious = willing.

[Defraeter]

Cheapy wrote:

Regarding unconscious = willing.

and if you read the same thread after

sleeping are not willing
As say Malag, sleeping or unconscious creature is not willing.
The target of the spell must be a willing creature: if the creature is sleeping, it is not willing, so the spell in this case doesn't function and is wasted.

[Kthulhu]

Cheapy wrote:

Regarding unconscious = willing.

Chloroform, anyone?

[mplindustries]

Kthulhu wrote:

Cheapy wrote:

Regarding unconscious = willing.

Chloroform, anyone?

I believe the proper question is, "Hey, does this rag smells like Chloroform to you?"

[Phasics]

So then what's the purpose of the Marionette Possesion spell, trying to think of a circumstance it would make sense to use.

Possess a PC who's under the effect of mind control ? but then they wouldn't be willing at that point ....

[Defraeter]

a spell suggestion or a bluff to convince him "I'll give you the Force, my son!"????

[Phasics]

Defraeter wrote:

a spell suggestion or a bluff to convince him "I'll give you the Force, my son!"????

in both cases only works outside of combat and even then the bluff would be at least -10 if not -20. I mean think about it what could someone say to you that would make you let them possess you.

as for suggestion if the target considers possession a harmful effect then suggestion would automatically fail.

I guess you could kidnap the King's Son ransom him by forcing the King to allow a willing possession or his Son dies. I guess that could work.

[Defraeter]

It is a lesser form of Magic Jar, so less easy to use. It's sure it isn't a spell you use in combat.
But you just share the body and do not trap the soul of the host, so it's less aggressive. The host is helpless but don't lost its senses, so follows what you do when inside AND can communicate telepathically with you during possession. The host may say you if it don't agree with the use of its body.

I think it may be possible to do that with an ally if he understands the interest of possession or may be if he has some advantages (payment, favour, etc...).
And if the first possession goes well, the host will be less reluctant to do that another times.

As roleplaying and negotiation are required, everything may be possible if the target is trusting you or... think it's great honor that the "god's voice"/"great leader"/"boss" chooses him...

[mplindustries]

Charm, Suggestion, Dominate can all make them willing.

Possess one of your summoned creatures, familiar, animal companion, or undead you control/command (it is a Necromancy spell after all).

Yeah, it's not a great spell, but it has a niche.