| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Am I reading this right that a fighter who wants to "lose" an old feat can do so by swapping it at a level that grants bonus fighter feats and that by doing so he loses out in the long run on total feats gained?
...because it sounds like you either gain a new bonus feat OR trade the new one to retrain something you ALREADY had into something else. Does this seem like a crappy option to anyone else?
Why would he lose out on the total number of feats gained? He gets a new bonus feat, and can at the same time swap one of his old bonus feats for a different feat.
I don't think you are, no. A fighter can replace an old feat with a new feat, but if you replace a feat that is a prerequisite for something else you have, you lose access to everything dependent on it.
Upon reaching 4th level, and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, and so on), a fighter can choose to learn a new bonus feat in place of a bonus feat he has already learned. In effect, the fighter loses the bonus feat in exchange for the new one. The old feat cannot be one that was used as a prerequisite for another feat, prestige class, or other ability. A fighter can only change one feat at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the feat at the time he gains a new bonus feat for the level.
My guess is the bolded part is what is tripping you up, but the italicized part makes it clear this in place of the new bonus, only a bonus feat he has already learned.
And it's every 4th level.
Right, in place of an old one not a bonus feat AND swap an old one. you can't for instance trade mobility for weapon focus at 4th AND get weapon spec as your 4th level feat.In effect you still would have the same number of feats you did at 3rd level except instead of gaining another at 4th level, you retrained a feat slot you already had so that it is a different feat than it was originally.By the wording THAT is how it works and that means you WOULD NOT gain the bonus feat slot for the level.You are ONLY SWAPPING, NOT BOTH GAINING AND SWAPPING.
Read the entry in the fighter class section of D20pfsrd.com. It's pretty cut and dry.
Expanding upon my original:
At 1st level, and at every even level thereafter, a fighter gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement (meaning that the fighter gains a feat at every level). These bonus feats must be selected from those listed as combat feats, sometimes also called “fighter bonus feats.”
Upon reaching 4th level, and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, and so on), a fighter can choose to learn a new bonus feat in place of a bonus feat he has already learned. In effect, the fighter loses the bonus feat in exchange for the new one. The old feat cannot be one that was used as a prerequisite for another feat, prestige class, or other ability. A fighter can only change one feat at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the feat at the time he gains a new bonus feat for the level.
It makes it pretty clear that the fighter gains a feat every level. On every 4th level he can swap a bonus feat he already learned (i.e. at 4th he can swap 2nd, at 8th he could swap either 2nd or 4th or 6th, etc.)
The last line in the entry also indicates that he gets both a bonus AND the ability to swap an old bonus out.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
|
Right, in place of an old one not a bonus feat AND swap an old one. you can't for instance trade mobility for weapon focus at 4th AND get weapon spec as your 4th level feat.In effect you still would have the same number of feats you did at 3rd level except instead of gaining another at 4th level, you retrained a feat slot you already had so that it is a different feat than it was originally.By the wording THAT is how it works and that means you WOULD NOT gain the bonus feat slot for the level.You are ONLY SWAPPING, NOT BOTH GAINING AND SWAPPING.
I have no idea how you see this in the wording.
Breaking down the PRD description quoted above by Pendin:
At 4th level you can swap a bonus feat
You can't swap a feat being used as a prereq
You can only swap one feat
You must choose to do this at the same time you gain your bonus feat.
Where are you seeing your interpretation?
At 4th level you get a new fighter bonus feat, AND you can swap out one of you old fighter bonus feats (in this case, the one you gained at L1 or L2) for a new feat.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I am annoyed that as a sorcerer I am forced to choose to progress only my spells known or my spells per day each level and am not allowed to progress both. This rule is stupid and I hate Paizo. Am I reading this right? Yes I am and don't you dare tell me otherwise.
Pendin Faust is correct. Well, except that they get a bonus feat at 1st level too :)
It works just like a sorcerer swapping their spells.
At level 4, the fighter gains a bonus feat. In addition, they are allowed to swap out one bonus feat they learned before then for a new bonus feat. You do not "lose" out of any feats in the long run. You have the same exact number as you would if you didn't swap out any feats.
Here you can see Jason thinking about implementing this change.
This is not meant to be a nerf in any sense, and is meant to increase the versatility of the fighter and their feat choices.
How can you progress spells per day at level up as a sorcerer(ess)? The number is fixed for spells per day (at least in Core). That's kind of the trade off for the fact that you can cast any spell you know without prepping them before hand.
Right, in place of an old one not a bonus feat AND swap an old one. you can't for instance trade mobility for weapon focus at 4th AND get weapon spec as your 4th level feat.In effect you still would have the same number of feats you did at 3rd level except instead of gaining another at 4th level, you retrained a feat slot you already had so that it is a different feat than it was originally.By the wording THAT is how it works and that means you WOULD NOT gain the bonus feat slot for the level.You are ONLY SWAPPING, NOT BOTH GAINING AND SWAPPING.I have no idea how you see this in the wording.
Breaking down the PRD description quoted above by Pendin:
At 4th level you can swap a bonus feat
You can't swap a feat being used as a prereq
You can only swap one feat
You must choose to do this at the same time you gain your bonus feat.Where are you seeing your interpretation?
not prd, d20pfsrd.com. the site is more reliable and complete.
The PRD is Paizo's repository. We've been quoting the Core rulebook, by Paizo, from Paizo's repository. d20pfsrd.com is a great site but is maintained by a 3rd party, and is not affiliated with Paizo.
Having said that, the entry on d20pfsrd.com is also saying the same thing as the PRD.
The PRD, CRB, and d20pfsrd all have the same wording. Unless it's a reaaaaaallly subtle change.
I'm sorry Conundrum, but your interpretation of that wording is incorrect. The fighter replaces an old feat for a new one at fourth in addition to gaining the bonus feat that they ordinarily should. It is an identical feature to a spontaneous spellcaster swapping out an old spell known.
If you are certain that you are correct in your interpretation, I recommend you ask it in the 'Ask James Jacobs' thread for a developer's opinion, since you do not seem to believe our reading of the rules as written.
