Looking for help creating a ranged rogue

[Ruiner]

me and some friends will be playing the Rise of the Runelord adventure path and i wish to be the rogue.

other members of the group as far as i know

half-Orc fighter or barbarian
human magus
gnome druid
Monk unknown what race(he was thinking half-orc)
ranger or ranged fighter

due to the fact that we have 3 melee fighters i thought i would be more useful in ranged combat.

I am allowed to play any race including those in the advanced race guide (I was thinking Ratfolk or vishkanyas but am not set on them) . i would also like to keep trap-finding and trap sense.

Any help and or advice would be greatly appreciated.
thank you.

[calagnar]

If you want to be a good range attacker with trap finding. Play a ranger with the urban ranger archetype. Sneak attack damage and range combat do not mix.

[Nicos]

I think the rogue class is just fine, except for ranged combat. Try a bard.

[Marthian]

Sniper Goggles.

Seriously, get them. I don't even think you will need to spend talents on increasing sneak attack range, just get these goggles...

[blackbloodtroll]

Urban Ranger, or Archeologist Bard.

Rogues do not do ranged well.

[Nicos]

Unless one of the melee guys uses dazzling display, then the rogue could take the shattered defense chain, it is the only more or less realiable way to get Sneak attack at range (for rogues).

[blackbloodtroll]

Nicos wrote:

Unless one of the melee guys uses dazzling display, then the rogue could take the shattered defense chain, it is the only more or less realiable way to get Sneak attack at range (for rogues).

That works for melee Rogues.

[Nicos]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Nicos wrote:

Unless one of the melee guys uses dazzling display, then the rogue could take the shattered defense chain, it is the only more or less realiable way to get Sneak attack at range (for rogues).

That works for melee Rogues.

??

the melee rogue just flank, the ranged rogue needs shatered defense and a dazzling displaying buddy.

I still think a bard would be better with so many melee guys in the party.

[sunbeam]

Good luck. If you do a forum search you will find several threads specifically about this, and some others where it is discussed in the thread.

It's hard to pull off. I think the predominant opinion is that it isn't very good due to the sneak attack being hard to get off at range.

Particularly if you don't use one of the archetypes. They aren't strong, but they do help a tiny bit.

Honestly if you want to go this route, ... I dunno maybe the Urban Ranger, that gets trapfinding.

Or really a bard doesn't get sneak attack, but they everything else a rogue does better anyway, and a lot more besides. Since sneak attack is so iffy at range Bards probably do more damage with a bow than a Rogue does in most situations.

And one or two of the Bard Archetypes get trapfinding.

[psionichamster]

Elf.

Scout Archetype.

Sniper Goggles ASAP.

All the bow feats you can get.

(Human trades handful of nice abilities for skill point/level & an extra feat.)

Tactics: be the archer guy til 8th level, then be the run around & sneak attack with arrows guy.

[voideternal]

One possibility is dipping in wizard(diviner) to always act in the surprise round, and grabbing the surprise attack rogue talent.

It also opens up the path to the arcane trickster pretty nicely. Surprise round flat-footed touch sneak attack scorching ray is pretty effective, even if it's a once-per encounter trick. And you eventually get greater invisibility for guaranteed sneak attack.

[blackbloodtroll]

You can do it, but be prepared for being a bit behind in power and effectiveness.

Why don't you state your concept, then we can help you find the class that suites it the best.

[Ross Byers]

I merged the threads on this topic.

[Gwen Smith]

If you want to do a ranged rogue, it can work:
The Deadly Range talent increases the range at which you can do sneak attack damage by 10 feet (you can take it more than once, and they stack). The Snap Shot talent makes your enemies always flat footed in the surprise round as long as you're making a ranged attack.

Take one of the races that gets you the "reduce stealth penalty for sniping" trait, get darkvision so you don't have to be a beacon, and snipe away. If you're small, you can take Go Unnoticed and always hide in the surprise round.

There might be better ways of getting what you're after, but ranged rogues are doable.

[Ruiner]

I don't really have a concept for this character i just want something useful to the group. Since most of them are not going have many skills,or skills to find traps, so my first thought was the skill heavy rogue. And since we had so much melee i figured range would also be more useful.

Re reading the Archaeologist Bard that looks like a good option if i wanted sneak attack i could dip into rogue. plus you get whip proficiency {Indiana Jones anyone). and what are your thoughts on Cross classing with gunslinger?

but i am still leaving all my options open, all advice and suggestions appreciated
thanks again

[Shadowlord]

I think you can make an incredibly effective Rogue based archer. I will re-post with a few ideas for you.

[blackbloodtroll]

Archaeologist Bard will make you incredibly versatile.

Your skills, spells, and touch of Martial skill, will make you always relevant, and always with something to do.

Sneak Attack is overrated, at best.

[Shadowlord]

1. Elf - Composite Longbow (don't dump STR)
2. Rogue - Sniper Archetype (possibly Bandit or Sanctified Rogue also)
3. Stealthy Sniper Advanced Rogue Talent
4. Snap Shot Advanced Rogue Talent
5. Pin Point Targeting
6. Rapid Shot
7. Manyshot
8. Precise Shot
9. Elven Accuracy
10. Focused Shot
11. Parting Shot
12. Stabbing Shot
13. Clustered Shots
14. Greater Snap Shot
15. Hammer the Gap
16. Improved Snap Shot
17. Snap Shot
18. Deadly Aim

So these are some good archery feats and rogue skills. The Snap Shot line will give you the ability to threaten, flank, and make attacks of opportunity with a ranged weapon.

Some support ideas that work really well are boosting up your Stealth and getting Hellcat Stealth, or putting a few levels in Shadowdancer. Go for Shot on the Run. Sniping shouldn't be a problem at that point either.

Another option would be to take a level of Wizard and go into Arcane Archer. At that point you would get Elven Curve Blade as a backup melee weapon.

You shouldn't have any issues building a pretty solid rogue based archer with some of these things.

[Shadowlord]

19. Gang Up

This plus the Snap Shot line will give you a lot of Flanking options with your bow.

[psionichamster]

I echo what Shadowlord suggested, but offer the Scout Archetype Rogue as a fantastic "one-hit" machine.

Dodge, Mobility, Shot on the Run
Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus, Deadly Aim, Rapid Shot

Don't dump Str, and you're pretty well set.

If Human:

1: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
2: Weapon Focus: Shortbow (RT)
3: Deadly Aim
4: Dodge (RT)
5: Rapid Shot
6: Sniper's Eye (or whichever you prefer)
7: Mobility
8: Rogue Talent (Firearm Training / Grit / what have you)
9: Shot on the Run

From here on out, it's gravy.

Move 30' (or better, move 60' since you've been hasted somehow), shooting once along the way for 6+Dex+1(Wpn Focus)+1(PBS)+1(haste)+Weapon Enchantment for 5d6+str+1+enchantment.

If you can get a Bard in the party, or god help the enemies a Bard & Wizard combo, you're golden.

I've played this exact type of character in Curse of the Crimson Throne (except he used a crossbow), Rise of the Runelords (Elf with Longbow & Heirloom Greatsword), and Kingmaker (with a 2 level dip in Ranger).

Each time, they were fun, multi-faceted, and could really put the hurt down on the bad guy when they got the chance.

A highlight was (using Hero Points in Runelords), the Elf (with Bard & Wizard buffs already running) moved some 45-50' across the battlefield, before unleashing a full volley of sneak attack arrows into the dragon we were fighting. 'Twas glorious!

[Jackissocool]

I echo the previous recommendations for the scout rogue. I also say to take the deadly range and/or sniper archetypes. Then acquiring sniper goggles as quickly as possible. That may seem redundant, but the sniper goggles give a +2 to damage for each sneak attack dice when within normal sneak attack range. The goggles only actually say 30 ft, but it would be super reasonable for your DM to say it counts within the expanded range you'd have. Plus sniper basically gives you a free far shot. All that together means easy sneak attacks at any distance, and within the first 30-100 feet a 30% boost to damage, available whenever you move just a little bit.

Edit: A halfling with the swift as shadows racial ability is also a great matchup for this. No movement penalty for stealth and the stealth penalty for sniping is halved.