Char-Wisdom Paladin-Monk

[folomo]

Well, after reading the Champion of Irori, I was motivated to do a Paladin/Monk. My first problem was obviusly the MADness of it (4 relevant stats).
So, after some digging around, I have come to the following 2 posibilities. One using only wisdom and charisma (but lacks on the damage side) and the other with dex as main and wisdom and charisma as secondary. The stats consider a 20 point array and without dumping stats.

Wis+Cha build,
Monk 3/Paladin 2/Oracle 1/cleric 1/Champion of Irori X (may change cleric for other class that grants channel energy)
Race: Aasimar
Base stats: Str 12, Dex 8, Const 12, Int 10, Wis 18, Car 18

Required feats: guided hand
Curse: Legalistic/Wolfscarred
Revelation: sidestep secret (lore)or Nature’s Whispers(nature)

So this builds adds charisma to CA and CMD and use wisdom to hit. Has some pretty good CMD, saves and evasion, making this more of a defensive character.

Dex+Wis+Cha build,
Monk 3/Paladin 2/Champion of Irori X
Race: (any with dex and wis as main stats)
Base stats: Str 9, Dex 18, Const 12, Int 10, Wis 16, Car 14

Required feats: Finess
Required weapon enhancement: agile

This builds sacrifice defense for more damage.

Any idea how to improve on this ideas? any feat/trait I'm missing? Suggestions?

[prototype00]

Depending if you want to play in PFS or not (PFS doesn't follow the RAW in allowing age categories, so this doesn't work there).

You can play an aasimar that takes the immortal spark racial trait that allows you to cast lesser age resistance (ignore the penalties for middle age for 24hrs) 1/day.

Then your character can start at middle age (+1 to all mental stats, -2 to all physical stats) for basically no penalty,

Helps a great deal with MAD I can tell you when you have free points in pointbuy like that.

prototype00

[johnlocke90]

What type of weapon are you using? Are you going to use a monk weapon?

IMO, this setup is going to be much worse than most characters. If your party plays more traditional setups, expect to be considerably less useful than them.

[Shisumo]

If/when I finally make my Champion of Irori, it will be human, using the dual-talented racial swap option, monk 3/paladin 2/champion X. The statline on a 20 pt build after racial adjustments looks like this: Str 16, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 13; feats Dodge (monk bonus) and Toughness. If you take your first 3 levels in monk, you can get Cha 14 right when it matters (at your first level in paladin) and go from there. The advantage of this build is that it is playable and functional from level 1 on, while the two options you have listed are likely to be mostly useless until about level 5.

[Lemmy]

I like Shisumo's build. Although I'd switch the Wis/Cha scores, as IMO, Paladins get more from Cha than Monks get from Wis.

Especially since as a Paladin, you get to wear armor.

[Seranov]

So this prestige class looks really cool, but I had some mechanical questions about it.

Is it intended for unarmed and unarmored characters, like most monks? It seems like it has a handful of class abilities based around not using a weapon, but is there anything stopping a Champion of Irori from taking the Sohei archetype and wearing armor, or using a weapon they get Weapon Training in if they get a few more levels of Monk?

[Discomancer]

I'm guessing that, should you wear armor, you will lose your FoB/AC just like any other monk. In addition, reading it over, most of the abilities specifically state "unarmed strike". Sadly, I don't think this would be the class to play if you plan on wearing armor/want to flurry with a weapon.

[Shisumo]

Lemmy wrote:

I like Shisumo's build. Although I'd switch the Wis/Cha scores, as IMO, Paladins get more from Cha than Monks get from Wis.

Especially since as a Paladin, you get to wear armor.

There are several reasons why I would disagree with regard to the Champion of Irori in particular. Several of their abilities rely on either their Wisdom modifier or their ki pool, and they can use their ki points to power their smites and their lay on hands, meaning they have slightly less need for Charisma than most paladins do.

[Seranov]

Discomancer wrote:

I'm guessing that, should you wear armor, you will lose your FoB/AC just like any other monk. In addition, reading it over, most of the abilities specifically state "unarmed strike". Sadly, I don't think this would be the class to play if you plan on wearing armor/want to flurry with a weapon.

I figured, was just curious. I was thinking that Sohei might be nice for Weapon Training, and you could still kick/knee/elbow stuff (for the class abilities) while holding a reach weapon (which you could flurry with if you have 6 levels of monk).

I think the much bigger question, for me, is "how would you roleplay this character?" Because I can't even begin to fathom the thought process of someone who is absorbed in the pursuit of self-perfection, in addition to the tenants of a paladin.

[folomo]

Thanks for the feedback!

prototype00: Nice catch, a +1 to mental stats will definitely help the first build.

johnlocke90: Im considering just using unarmed combat. Its not a restriction, but I see more options for unarmed combat than with a weapon.

Shisumo: Right, I didnt consider the first lvls. The first build would only be playable since lvl 3 and good since lvl 5. The second would be playable since lvl 1 and good since lvl 3.
Also, I think the best option for the dex build is to have the Dervish Dance feat, and wield a scimitar on one hand but attack unarmed. With this you don't depend on a magic item, gain a +1 to hit/damage (not having to use agile) and can be viable a lot earlier (lvl 3, or 1 if human).
On the race note, I think that human with dual talent is not the best option. Basically, you get a race that only grants a +2 to two stats. Considering the large amount of races and variants, there are better options. For example, in my case Aasimar, Tengu, Qlippoth-Spawn Tiefling and Asura-Spawn Tiefling are great races considering their stats and abilities, better than dual talented human, but not everyone likes those races.

For the dex build:
For Race, I think that Tengu would be a great choice, granting a +2 dex, +2 wis, -2 const and a claw and bite natural attacks. This could be combined with TWF, and gain unarmed combat styles bonuses using a feat.
I was considering using a Master of Many styles with two weapon fighting. It would be pretty feat taxing, but i don't see too much advantage using flurry of blows for a character with almost full AB.
¿Any idea if the Martial Artist class feature would progress the Fuse Style?

For the wis-cha build:
I could use the Sensei Archetype to gain wis to hit instead of using guided hand. Now the character would only require 1 lvl in oracle, 1 (but probably would still take 2) lvl in paladin and 3 on monk. Could be decent from lvl 3 (1 orac/2 monk) and requires less feats. The great problem is that you lose flurry of blows, and cant have TWF nor more than 1 style to compensate. any ideas how to fix this?