Teifling large limbs?

[Nalkin69]

My DM told me that the large limbs heritage trait wouldn't allow use of large weapons beyond a light weapon because they would still be inapporately sized. I was wondering what other paople thought of this because it kinda caught me by surprise.

[Umbranus]

You should be able to use light weapons (as onehanded) and onehanded (as twohanded) but not twohanded large weapons.

[ProfPotts]

As far as I'm aware the 'oversized limbs' variant tiefling ability just says...

'You have oversized limbs, allowing you to use Large weapons without penalty.'

So I guess you could take it two ways:

1. You get to ignore the -2 penalty for using an oversized weapon, but not the required number of hands increase (i.e. the required number of hands isn't considered a 'penalty').

or

2. You get to ignore both the -2 penalty and the increase in the required number of hands (i.e. the increase in the required number of hands is one of the 'penalties' the ability ignores).

It sounds like your GM is thinking '1' and you're thinking '2'. Personally I think it's '2', because it's less complicated, and it makes more sense (either your hands and arms are big enough to comfortably use the thing or they're not). Also, the ability to wield a Large-sized longsword as a two-handed weapon just without the -2 extra penalty is completely pointless as what you end up with is a standard 2d6 damage 19-20/x2 critical range, two-handed sword... i.e. a greatsword...

[Nalkin69]

Propotts Thats kinda my thinking on it I was aiming to have a large longsword one handed and the way i read it made that seem possible. Does anyone else offer an opinion?

[ProfPotts]

If it helps any, in Pathfinder #20 there's...

Legacy of Fire spoiler:

... a medium-sized orgekin with a deformity letting him use Large weapons, and he uses a Large greatclub. The orgekin listing in Bestiary 2 says '... the orgekin can wield weapons one size category larger than normal without penalty...' so in that case, at least, the guy's using a Large two-hander without problems. I can't think of any other relevant examples off the top of my head.

[Nalkin69]

Lol thats kinda of funny he dmmed use through LOF. Thanks I always respect the dms ruling, but kinda wanted it cleared up in my head.

[Abyssian]

I'm at work so I can't look up the specific wording but I kind of figure that it would not be too close in power to the Titan Mauler's 3rd level class ability Massive Weapons since it's only a trait...

Massive Weapons:

At 3rd level, a titan mauler becomes skilled in the use of massive weapons looted from her titanic foes. The attack roll penalty for using weapons too large for her size is reduced by 1, and this reduction increases by 1 for every three levels beyond 3rd (to a minimum of 0). This ability replaces trap sense.

...which doesn't allow you to, for instance, wield a large two-handed weapon since it doesn't have any verbiage that specifically alters the Inappropriately Sized Weapons rule...

Inappropriately Sized Weapons:

A creature can't make optimum use of a weapon that isn't properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn't proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon's designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can't wield the weapon at all.

[Umbranus]

@ProfPotts: I think 1 is true.

[Nalkin69]

Like propotts said tough what would be the point of taking the triat then when you could just weild a larger med size weapon and do the same damage?

[Umbranus]

Idea 1:you could play a tiefling knife master with a large dagger. You'd still get to sneak with d8s and have a higher base damage.

Idea 2: You could take ewp bastard sword and wield a large bastard sword twohanded. Now you have a weapon that deals 2d8, which you would not get with a normal twohanded weapon.

I am sure I can come up with more. You just have to be creative.

[Abyssian]

It's just a trait. Remember that a trait is generally half as useful as a feat. Considering that there is at least one feat that does literally nothing, it is altogether feasible that a trait would be of very limited use.

[JOHNB83]

Right but it is also a triat theat replaces spell like abilites of the base class so hopefully they'd give you something for that. Its seems the vauge wordy of it makes it kinda hard to see what its meant to do.

[ProfPotts]

I'm assuming it's the 'oversized limbs' variant tiefling ability - which replaces the race's spell-like ability racial trait (which is to use the 2nd level spell Darkness as a SLA once per day with the tiefling's character level as the caster level) - so it's replacing something pretty powerful. It's a racial trait in the regards, not a 'worth half a Feat' type of trait... although the similar terminology is confusing.

[blackbloodtroll]

It is an alternate racial trait. It replaces the Darkness ability.

It does not let you wield weapons you would otherwise not be able to wield.

You can wield Large light weapons as one handed weapons, and Large one handed weapons as two handed weapons.

He can do so with no penalty.

It's a strong ability, but not overpowering.