| Sean H |
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After failing to complete a mission in PFS with my low-level(3) wizard, I realized just how much the party's bacon could have been saved if I had a Dismissal scroll or two prepared. This got me thinking about other important scrolls(or wands) I should always have on hand, just in case. I played up my last two games, so I have some extra money, and this seems like a good investment.
Is there a list of spells that are good to have in scroll form? Right now I'm thinking about the following:
1st:
- Protection from Evil
- Alarm
- Obscuring Mist
2nd:
- Suppress Charms and Compulsions
- Protection from Arrows
- Resist Energy
3rd:
- Dispel Magic
4th:
- Dimension Door
5th:
- Dismissal (This will be expensive... but can really be worth it.)
Does anyone have any other considerations?
| tonyz |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Two points first.
1)If you're planning to casti it a lot, get a wand. Cheaper than an equivalent amount of scrolls. If you regularly cast a particular spelli n a lot of battles, strongly consider a wand. At your level, you can probably only afford a wand of a 1st level spell, but, for instance, wands of protection from evil retain utility to very high levels
2) if caster level or saving throw matter, it's better to cast it yourself than use a scroll. Much more likely to be successful, since scrolls are low caster level and seldom benefit from your feats. Hence you probably want scrolls of stuff you cast on your friends rather than your enemies.
Other possibilities:
1st:
Mage armor
Enlarge person
Silent image
Vanish
Expeditious retreat
2nd
Blur
Glitterdust (more for invisibility detection than blinding)
See invisibility
Web
3rd
Haste
Magic circle vs whatever
Heroism
Wind wall
Fly
Water breathing
4th
Greater invisibility
| Talynonyx |
I find anything where the duration (1 minute/level or more) or DC or combat use are unimportant it's good to have a few scrolls of. My wizard has lately stopped preparing See Invisibility, he never needs more than a few rounds of it at a time, so a basic scroll of it lasts long enough.
Anything that is situational, but absolutely necessary when that situation comes up is also good. Water Breathing for instance. But be careful with spells like Haste, you might want it a lot, but it has a target limitation based on CL so if you have more than 5 potential targets, either craft it at a higher level or just prepare it.
| Yosarian |
First level: obscuring mist (great if you're suddenly being attacked by a group of archers)
Detect secret doors (you'll know when to pull it out; usually it's after everyone in your party has failed their preception checks and the DM starts tearing his hair out)
Feather fall
Second level:
Glitterdust
Knock
Third level:
gaseous form (I don't use this often enough to bother with memorizing it, but having it on hand could save your life, and it has all kinds of utility uses if all else fails and you need to get up a wall, or through a keyhole)
| thunderspirit |
Scrolls are great for the once-in-a-blue-moon needs (or before you can afford a wand of the same spell). From my perspective, comprehend languages and silent image are good examples; you don't need them all the time, but when you do they're great tools to pull out of your bag of tricks.
It's also worth noting that a Sorcerer can be considerably more versatile with a collection of scrolls and wands. They won't be as adaptable as a Wizard in all likelihood, but they aren't reduced to a spam role either. YMMV.
| Vendis |
First level: obscuring mist (great if you're suddenly being attacked by a group of archers)
Detect secret doors (you'll know when to pull it out; usually it's after everyone in your party has failed their preception checks and the DM starts tearing his hair out)
Feather fall
Scrolls are a minimum of a standard action to activate (longer if the casting time of the spell is longer). As such, Feather Fall on a scroll is only useful if you're falling longer than a round. The same rules apply to wands as well.
| Gignere |
Other possibilities:
1st:
Mage armor
Enlarge person
Silent image
Vanish
Expeditious retreat2nd
Blur
Glitterdust (more for invisibility detection than blinding)
See invisibility
Web3rd
Haste
Magic circle vs whatever
Heroism
Wind wall
Fly
Water breathing4th
Greater invisibility
I mostly agree with this list, other than: Enlarge Person and Vanish
Enlarge Person should not be a scroll or wand cast because it is a full round cast so pulling out the scroll move action than use your standard to start a full round cast and than use your next round standard action to complete full round cast. That is basically two rounds of non-stop casting. Let the fighters drink their potions.
Vanish it will only last 1 round from a scroll or wand so probably a bad choice in most situations.
Obscuring mist is good on a scroll or wand.
For level 2 spells consider darkvision on scroll or a wand, that can come in useful if you have enough to buff the whole party with it and even from a scroll or wand it'll last 3 hours.
| Stazamos |
If you get Dispel Magic, be sure to get it at a reasonable caster level, 10th is usually pretty nice.
Here are some (* is already mentioned, but I mention again because I concur):
Dimensional Anchor
See Invisibility
Mount
Comprehend Languages*
Resist Energy*
Glitterdust*
Spider Climb
Gust of Wind
Shatter
Shrink Item (use the scroll, then prepare it tomorrow/next day for re-shrinking)
Passwall (maybe)
And if you can afford it, Plane Shift juuuust in case!
| Yosarian |
You're right about feather fall; that doesn't really work, my mistake.
I wouldn't recommend spending the money to get mount as a scroll if you're a wizard. Odds are, at the start of the day, you'll know if you need it or not and can choose to memorize it then; it's not something that you'll often need to pull out in an emergency. Maybe if you're a sorcerer, I guess...but even then, you're probably better off just buying a horse.
| Gignere |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You're right about feather fall; that doesn't really work, my mistake.
I wouldn't recommend spending the money to get mount as a scroll if you're a wizard. Odds are, at the start of the day, you'll know if you need it or not and can choose to memorize it then; it's not something that you'll often need to pull out in an emergency. Maybe if you're a sorcerer, I guess...but even then, you're probably better off just buying a horse.
You just need to get creative, mount can be a trap trigger. Instant cover for you. Become fodder for hungry monsters. Your creativity is the limit, and best thing even with a scroll it lasts a long time.
| Yosarian |
That's all true, but I still wouldn't want to waste the gold to make a scroll of mount; there are better ways to do that kind of stuff. Again, instead of spending 250 gold to summon a light horse for 2 hours, you could use 110 gold and just buy a war-trained light horse, and if you ask nicely the party druid/ranger can probably teach it a few tricks (like "attack") that would make it just better then a summoned mount.
Mount is a useful spell to have access to, but I don't think it's really worth making a scroll out of.
| Gignere |
That's all true, but I still wouldn't want to waste the gold to make a scroll of mount; there are better ways to do that kind of stuff. Again, instead of spending 250 gold to summon a light horse for 2 hours, you could use 110 gold and just buy a war-trained light horse, and if you ask nicely the party druid/ranger can probably teach it a few tricks (like "attack") that would make it just better then a summoned mount.
Mount is a useful spell to have access to, but I don't think it's really worth making a scroll out of.
I am not sure what spell you are thinking about a scroll of mount costs 25gps if you buy it and 12.5 gps if you scribe it.
When I play a caster I usually bring a few to everywhere.
morgandefey
|
Yosarian wrote:That's all true, but I still wouldn't want to waste the gold to make a scroll of mount; there are better ways to do that kind of stuff. Again, instead of spending 250 gold to summon a light horse for 2 hours, you could use 110 gold and just buy a war-trained light horse, and if you ask nicely the party druid/ranger can probably teach it a few tricks (like "attack") that would make it just better then a summoned mount.
Mount is a useful spell to have access to, but I don't think it's really worth making a scroll out of.
I am not sure what spell you are thinking about a scroll of mount costs 25gps if you buy it and 12.5 gps if you scribe it.
When I play a caster I usually bring a few to everywhere.
For me, I usually bring a few utilitarian spells with me, or control spells to free up my spell selection for offensive, control spells, or even a defensive spell. It also helps to have one or two offensive spells just in case you run out of spells, or you come across something you didn't anticipate. If you do focus on some of these spells, then just get a wand, but if you use these depending on the adventure and circumstance, then go for scrolls, because they are so much fun. Plus, the idea that a mage using a scroll invokes awesome power, so cool. In any case So for example:
Level 1
Grease
Sleep
Comprehend Language(Awesome)
Alarm(if I am on a long journey w/o room and board)
2-3 magic missles
1 Burning Hands
Level 2
Invisibility
Spectral hand
I think this makes my point. I do hope that this helps you in quest to find the right mixture of spell scrolls. Good luck and have fun. :)
| Kayerloth |
You're right about feather fall; that doesn't really work, my mistake. <snip> ...
Curious here as I'm only truly familiar with 3.5 (and earlier rules) PF being very brand new (and hence not sure of the spells details). Without discussing it's value otherwise I'll point out it does (in 3.5) have a duration. At 10th level, for example, you would have 10 rounds where blowing that climb check wouldn't necessarily mean a fatal or near fatal fall (or the catapult boulder might not have the trajectory your foes expect etc.)
Oops, can tell I'm rusty ... the target does need to be free falling.
Kayerloth
| Aunt Tony |
Cheaper than an equivalent amount of scrolls.
Actually, I'm not sure that's true at all.
On a per-charge basis, a Wand is around 15g (multiplied by caster level and spell level afterward of course, so 750 / 50 = 15) whereas a Scroll is only 12.5g (again, multiplied afterward, but to Scribe one only costs you 12 and a half gold). Wands are extremely extremely circumstantial, regardless, simply because you have to pay for all 50 charges up front (rather than pay-as-you-go which will save you oodles of cash for almost every serious application), they have a limit to how powerful of a spell they can hold (up to 4th), and you have to be a higher level character to even craft one in the first place (5th compared to Scribe Scroll which any level 1 spellcaster could do well with).
The only reason to want a Wand is that its UMD DC is a static 20 (whereas a Scroll's UMD DC is 20 + Spell Level). For casters, Scrolls are better: you can learn a spell from them and it takes you just as long to "use" one compared to a Wand.
The comparison of consumable magic items is not between Scrolls and Wands (Scrolls win, hands down), it's between Wands and Potions. Wands are vastly cheaper per-charge than Potions, and for that reason, a Wand of Cure Light Wounds remains the single item which every adventuring party will pool their cash for at absolutely any character level.
If you aren't gonna whip that Wand of CLW as a Bard/Druid/Witch when the Cleric goes down and can't do it himself, then leave Wands alone. They're worse than trash because noobs think they're valuable so they won't cash them in. At levels where characters can hit UMDs high enough for better healing / utility effects, the price of a few Scrolls or Potions is negligible anyway. Wands are a noob trap, and Craft Wand (being distinct from Craft Staff) is still one of the most heinous SNAFUs to still exist in the d20 ruleset.
ProfPotts
|
... On a per-charge basis, a Wand is around 15g (multiplied by caster level and spell level afterward of course, so 750 / 50 = 15) whereas a Scroll is only 12.5g (again, multiplied afterward, but to Scribe one only costs you 12 and a half gold)...
I think you've mixed up the cost for buying a wand with the cost for crafting a scroll. A wand is a base 15gp per charge to buy, but only 7.5gp per charge to craft (I'm not suggesting you can craft less than a fully-charged wand, by the way, just looking at the base costs for comparison purposes).
| Gignere |
Aunt Tony wrote:... On a per-charge basis, a Wand is around 15g (multiplied by caster level and spell level afterward of course, so 750 / 50 = 15) whereas a Scroll is only 12.5g (again, multiplied afterward, but to Scribe one only costs you 12 and a half gold)...I think you've mixed up the cost for buying a wand with the cost for crafting a scroll. A wand is a base 15gp per charge to buy, but only 7.5gp per charge to craft (I'm not suggesting you can craft less than a fully-charged wand, by the way, just looking at the base costs for comparison purposes).
I think he is arguing that if you don't have craft wands, the scroll is a better deal for the wizard, since wizards come default with scribe scroll. However this is PFS so it doesn't apply since craft feats are all banned.
| bfobar |
I think that is reasonable, as wizards have craft scroll at level 1 as a bonus feat, and probably won't take craft wand. Other classes, like supporting or casting based clerics, will probably take scribe scroll but not craft wand as well. If you have several casters or high umd characters, one character can supply scrolls around the party.
It makes sense for wizards to put any scroll they can get their hands on into their spell book and then craft scrolls at half cost later. Crafting and using two scrolls of a spell this way pays for itself.
Scrolls are best when used with spells with low dependence on caster abilities (effects don't scale with level, duration is at least minutes per level, no saving throws). Of these spells, get scrolls of the ones that you can think of situations where you really need the spell, but it won't occur more than once or twice per an adventure or so.
I would personally go with divinations (detect blah), restoring spells (remove disease!), odd buffs (spider climb? 10 times the duration of levitate and your party archer is glued to the ceiling.), and utility spells (floating disk, ant haul, etc.)
brreitz
|
At 4th, dimension door.
At 5th, teleport.
Granted, they're spells you want to know, but they're also quality "getaway spells". If you can cast it, a scroll of bard's escape is worth every gp.
Protection from evil is a good 1st level scroll. You don't always need it, but casting it can give the barbarian a second chance to make his will save vs. confusion, and thus save the party from slaughter.
Also! Let's not discount summon monster scrolls! Sometimes you need a critter to run down a hall (at low-levels) or an outsider's spell-like abilities (at higher levels), and having a backup scroll to call up some friends is never a bad idea.
| Some Random Player |
A wand of mount is useful when you are in the wilderness and either need to arrive somewhere quickly or get away from someone chasing you on foot.
Some adventures are timed and others tend to take away your method of transportation, so especially at low/mid levels a wand of mount can solve some problems.
| bfobar |
bfobar wrote:spider climb? 10 times the duration of levitate and your party archer is glued to the ceilingDoesn't work. To even stay in place while climbing, you need both feet and at least one hand on the surface you're clinging to. No bows for you.
ok even better then because its even more situational! Cast it on the archer so they can climb across the ceiling and onto the chandelier. There's usually one chandelier per adventure, right?
| Killstring |
Jiggy wrote:ok even better then because its even more situational! Cast it on the archer so they can climb across the ceiling and onto the chandelier. There's usually one chandelier per adventure, right?bfobar wrote:spider climb? 10 times the duration of levitate and your party archer is glued to the ceilingDoesn't work. To even stay in place while climbing, you need both feet and at least one hand on the surface you're clinging to. No bows for you.
How else would people keep their Swashes Buckled?
| threemilechild |
Grease is useful on a scroll more for the bonus vs grapple than the save DCs, but it's a great buff when you see the tentacle monster.
Lesser Restoration. (Unfortunately, Remove Disease/Curse require a caster level check, so isn't as suited to a scroll -- but LR will remove the ability damage until you can prepare the spell.)
| tonyz |
If you're going to cast it 25 times or more, a wand is cheaper than a scroll (assuming you either craft or buy them both). It's also much easier to carry.
My own play experience has been that in the course of a campaign, I usually don't burn all the charges on a 1st level wand, other than cure light wounds. But if it's a spell I'm regularly using, I'm usually glad I bought the wand.
And I've been known, at higher levels, to get wands of 3rd level spells (like haste -- if you cast it every combat, it's really handy to have a wand, even if it's only CL5, because you usually don't need to haste more than 5 people in your party, and most combats the duration won't be a problem.)