I've a PFS Bard(Dawnflower Dervish) who's about to hit second level. Once that happens, things get set in stone, but as of now can still be re-arranged. Currently, the character is non-human with stats prioritised as DEX->CON->CHA->WIS->INT->STR.
It seems to me that this character's major problem is defense. With a low strength and the Bard chassis, staying with light armor is a given. I'm considering trying to get Snake Style/Crane Style. To do THAT, I'm going to have to muliclass into Monk(Master of Many Styles) and/or Fighter(Unarmed).
One way is to continue as a Bard for the time being, switching to Monk(MoMS) at 3rd then back to Bard at 5th and sticking with it. Call this option A.
1 Bard Dervish Dance, Arcane Strike
2 Bard No feats
3 MoMS IUS, Snake Style, Crane Style
4 MoMS Crane Wing
5 Bard Weapon Focus (scimitar)
remainder of levels will be bard
The other is to rebuild the character at second level as if first level had been Fighter(Unarmed). Call this option B
1 Fighter(U) IUS, Crane Style, Weapon Focus(scimitar)
2 Bard(DD) Dervish Dance
3 Monk(MoMS) Snake Style, Crane Wing
4 Bard(DD) no feats this level
5 Bard(DD) Arcane Strike
remainder of levels will be bard.
In both cases, Snake Style is taken with the character third level feat, while Crane Style and Crane Wing are class bonus feats. I'm comparing at level 5 since that's where the feat load-outs match again.
Firstly, is any of this even a good idea ? With a low strength, it's not like this DD is acually going to IUS much if at all. Losing two caster levels isn't any fun either. Without a significant wisdom mod, the character is still going to be wearing (light) armor.
Advantages of A:
Less complicated, fewer classes used, feels more 'organic'.
2 More Skill Points, from the level of monk vs the level of fighter.
Better reflex and will saves.
Advantages of B:
2 more hit points, since a d10 comes at first level.
Crane Wing comes a level earlier
Better Weapon Proficiencies (ALL monk weapons including exotics, ALL martial weapons)
Better fort save.
Help me think this through.
Good point.
We'll call this a modified "Option A".
It takes away Option B's advantage of getting Crane Wing a level earlier.
I also need to remember to change a trait to "Magical Knack".
Option A (modified)
1 Bard 1 Dervish Dance, Arcane Strike
2 MoMS 1 IUS, Crane Style
3 MoMS 2 Snake Style, Crane Wing
4 Bard 2 No feat this level
5 Bard 3 Weapon Focus (Scimitar)
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I might just switch the level you take MoMS to 2nd instead of 3rd. It'll delay your BAB by a point, but it'll open up your other combat abilities a little faster. You can take bard as your 3rd level and still pick up Snake Style. It just spreads your feats out a little more evenly, though at second level you'll probably find that while you're defensively much better, your to-hit is going to be fairly abysmal.
**EDIT** I see you beat me to it :)
At low levels your AC is already going to be fairly strong with the path you're taking, I might go bard/monk/bard/monk/bard to keep your progression in your bard abilities on par throughout. You don't really need both Snake Style and Crane Wing at level 3.
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I went the multi class route with my Dawnflower Dervish and later regretted it. Although it is nice at lower levels it really hurts when you're NOT getting your higher level spells or NOT getting to increase your dancing bonus. Bards get some pretty cool abilities as they level up so that lost level or two will really hurt.
And a high dex character with a mithril chain shirt has a decent AC at lower levels. Not wonderful but decent.
Instead I'd recommend just gritting your teeth and using feats instead. Crane style is "only" 2 feats. A Dawnflower Dervish isn't particularly feat starved and can afford these feats.
Crane Style requires Dodge and IUS and BAB +2 (or Monk lvl1) so to get to Crane Wing is 4 feats AND BAB+5, so minium 7th level. Probably not gonna happen.
Snake Style is just IUS and Sense Motive 3, so that's *kinda* doable without a dip.
Without a level of MoMS, you can't combine them.
So your vote is in "The whole thing's a bad idea" camp.
If you don't multi-class, it takes until level 9 and ALL of your feats
1 Bard IUS, Dervish Dance
2 Bard
3 Bard Snake Style
4 Bard
5 Bard Dodge
6 Bard
7 Bard Crane Style
8 Bard
9 Bard Crane Wing
If you go with just one level of MoMS, you still don't get everything before lvl 9, because you don't have the BAB, but you save two feats so you can still get Arcane Strike and Weapon Focus.
1 Bard 1 Dodge, Dervish Dance
2 Bard 2
3 MoMS 1 IUS, Snake Style, Crane Style
4 Bard 3
5 Bard 4 Arcane Strike
6 Bard 5
7 Bard 6 Weapon Focus (Scimitar)
8 Bard 7
9 Bard 8 Crane Wing
Thanks for the tip on Magical Knack.
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What is your character's purpose in combat?
If your role is party buffer, two levels of multiclassing (ANY multiclassing!) makes a bard a really weak caster (no Haste until level 9??) and gimps your ability to boost your companions with performance buffs.
If your role is melee support, buffing with songs and spells, providing flanks and dealing a little bit of damage yourself, I still think you are giving up way too much in buffing and spellcasting for the little added defense of the Style feats.
If you see yourself as a primary damage dealer, you will want to focus on improving your damage output more than your defenses: if you kill stuff a round faster, that's one less round of damage for your to take.
To focus on defense, I would suggest a single feat (Toughness), followed by focusing on defensive purchases for your gold shopping: +1 Mithral Chain Shirt, +1 Ring of Protection, +1 Amulet of Natural Armor, +1 (Masterwork) spiked Light Steel Shield (Light so you can stuff your sword into that free hand (as a free action) when you need to cast a spell, spiked so that you threaten (for flanking) even w/o your scimitar out), +2 Belt of DEX (AC, attack, damage and REF saves!).
If you want to go more offense, spend lots of gold upgrading your weapon (raw +'s work very well for a bard, because of your medium BAB) and pickup the Arcane Strike feat as soon as you can. If you REALLY want to focus on personal damage (and NOT party buffing), I would suggest going with the Dawnflower Dervish archetype.
Stated in the original post that this will be a Dawnflower Dervish.
Can't inspire courage in anyone but herself, and can't use a shield.
Guess it'll be another Dodge => Mobility -> Spring Attack with Arcane Strike then, per the guide. Sigh.
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Sorry, Slim - I guess I was reading too many post lasts night. As a Dawnflower Dervish you can afford to spend a lot of your gold on defense, since your offense will be pretty solid when you are dancing. Going straight bard is definitely your best bet, IMO.
I'm not sure that I see the point of Spring Attack, though, since it is a full round action and you need a move action to start your performance (at least until level 10). A Quick Runner's Shirt (1K GP in Ultimate Equipment) might be suited to give you that extra movement when you need (but only once per day).
If you do go Spring/Whirlwind, you definitely want to make room in there somewhere for Lunge, probably early in your build. The extra reach options when you are using Whirlwind would be well worth the cost of the feat.
I may throw in the towel on bard. I'll have a look at Dezhem's Bard 1 (DD) -> Fighter 6 -> Duelist.
I'll a little distressed at how much I miss that extra feat for being human. I was hoping to spare one for a racial feat for RP reasons, but there's just no room.
I think I'm going to rebuild not as a Dawnflower Dervish, but as an Arcane Duelist that takes the Dervish Dancer feat. Without Inspire Courage usable on allies, it just wasn't feeling like a bard.
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I think I'm going to rebuild not as a Dawnflower Dervish, but as an Arcane Duelist that takes the Dervish Dancer feat. Without Inspire Courage usable on allies, it just wasn't feeling like a bard.
Dawnflower is a pretty powerful bard archetype, but I agree: if you go that way, don't advertise yourself as a bard or people might be expecting something that you aren't. You could easily describe yourself as an arcane-based melee damage dealer, though - and still support the group with your spells, especially once you get to Haste.
Worth considering: I played around with the idea of a STR-based Dawnflower Dervish - just ignoring the scimitar bonus and focusing on two-handed damage build with the awesome Dawnflower dance bonuses. Thtat combo makes a pretty solid melee damage build, IMO.
I'm also thinking about switching the Kitsune to a Lotus Geisha and using a Human with the Dual-Talent alternative racial trait for the Arcane Duelist with Dervish Dance.