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Did I do something wrong here? the damage output is terrible I can switch turtle clutch to dragon style. i am going for grapple master. think El santo but after living in the world of full BAB I feel spoiled can any body make a few suggestions? I can also drop my +1 to str at 8th level 8 and make it wisdom. then ability focus to make my stunning fist to 25?
Unnamed Hero
Human (Mwangi) Monk (Tetori) 10
LN Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +3; Senses Perception +20
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Defense
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AC 26, touch 23, flat-footed 23 (+3 armor, +3 Dex)
hp 72 (10d8+10)
Fort +8, Ref +10, Will +14; +2 vs. enchantment
Defensive Abilities Evasion; Immune disease
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Offense
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Speed 60 ft.
Melee Unarmed strike +13/+8 (2d6+6/x2)
Special Attacks Ki Strike, Lawful, Ki Strike, Magic
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Statistics
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Str 20/22, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 11, Wis 19/25, Cha 9
Base Atk +7; CMB +16 (+20 Grappling); CMD 36 (41 vs. Grapple)
Feats Greater Grapple, Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike, Monk Weapon Proficiencies, Pinning Knockout, Pinning Rend, Rapid Grappler, Snapping Turtle Clutch, Snapping Turtle Shell, Snapping Turtle Style +2, Stunning Fist (11/day) (DC 22), Stunning Pin
Traits Sacred Touch, World Traveler (Sense Motive)
Skills Acrobatics +16, Escape Artist +16, Perception +20, Sense Motive +21
Languages Common, Polyglot
SQ AC Bonus +10, Break Free +10, Counter-Grapple, Fast Movement (+30'), Graceful Grappler, Inescapable Grasp, Ki Defense, Ki Pool, Maneuver Training, Purity of Body, Still Mind, Stunning Fist (Stun, Fatigue, Sicken), Unarmed Strike (2d6), Wholeness of Body (10 HP/use)
Other Gear Belt of giant strength +2, Bracers of armor +3, Headband of inspired wisdom +6, Monk's robe
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Special Abilities
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AC Bonus +10 The Monk adds his Wisdom bonus to AC and CMD, more at higher levels.
Break Free +10 (Ex) At 5th level, a tetori adds his monk level on combat maneuver or Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple. If a tetori fails a save against an effect that causes him to become entangled, paralyzed, slowed, or staggered, he may spend 1 point from
Counter-Grapple (Ex) At 4th level, a tetori wrestler may make an attack of opportunity against a creature attempting to grapple him. This ability does not allow the tetori to make an attack of opportunity against a creature with the Greater Grapple feat. At 6th level, he
Evasion (Ex) If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead.
Fast Movement (+30') The Monk adds 10 or more feet to his base speed.
Graceful Grappler (Ex) A tetori uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus to determine CMB and CMD for grappling. At 4th level, he suffers no penalties on attack rolls, can make attacks of opportunity while grappling, and retains his Dexterity bonus to AC when
Greater Grapple +2 to grapple, maintaining a grapple is a move action.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Improved Grapple You grapple at +2, with no attacks of opportunity allowed.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Inescapable Grasp (Su) At 9th level, a tetori can spend 1 point from his ki pool to suppress his opponents' freedom of movement and magical bonuses to Escape Artist or on checks to escape a grapple. At 13th level, this ability also duplicates the effect of {i
Ki Defense (Su) A monk can spend 1 point from his ki pool to give himself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round.
Ki Pool (Su) You have a ki pool equal to 1/2 your monk level + your Wisdom modifier.
Ki Strike, Lawful (Su) If you have ki remaining, unarmed strikes count as lawful to overcome DR.
Ki Strike, Magic (Su) If you have ki remaining, unarmed strikes count as magic to overcome DR.
Maneuver Training (Ex) CMB = other BABs + Monk level
Pinning Knockout Against a pinned opponent, you may double nonlethal damage with grapple check
Pinning Rend Against pinned opponent, you may deal bleed damage with Grapple check
Purity of Body (Ex) At 5th level, a monk gains immunity to all diseases, including supernatural and magical diseases.
Rapid Grappler Spend a swift action to make a combat maneuver check to grapple while using Greater Grapple
Sacred Touch You were exposed to a potent source of positive energy as a child, perhaps by being born under the right cosmic sign, or maybe because one of your parents was a gifted healer. As a standard action, you may automatically stabilize a dying creature mer
Snapping Turtle Clutch Your shield bonus applies to your CMD and touch AC
Snapping Turtle Shell AC bonus increases by 2, and opponents receive -4 on critical confirmations
Snapping Turtle Style +2 Gain +1 shield bonus to AC when at least one hand is free
Still Mind (Ex) +2 to saves against enchantment spells and effects.
Stunning Fist (11/day) (DC 22) You can stun an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Stunning Fist (Stun, Fatigue, Sicken) (Ex) At 1st level, the monk gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the monk gains the ability to apply a new condition to the target of his Stunning Fist. This conditio
Stunning Pin Use Stunning Fist against pinned opponents
Unarmed Strike (2d6) The Monk does lethal damage with his unarmed strikes.
Wholeness of Body (10 HP/use) (Su) Self-heal monk level in damage for 2 Ki points.
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yes. bad fun wrong.
yes. bad fun wrong.
huh?
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Tetori isn't a damage build, it is a single target control build. Your goal should be to identify a viable target and then eliminate them from the combat. You may be able to hit multiple targets (if the combat is long enough), but you are not going to be competing with the two handed weapon fighter for damage while you are doing your "job".
Sorry.
You don't really mention what your goal is with this character so without a stated goal I just answered your question with a generic.
When you say you want a grappler, that is almost in direct contradiction with a damage dealer as Argus indicates. Are you wanting to grapple, do you want to do damage, or do you want to stun? these are all different directions that you can go.
My goal is to do all 3 have a good stunning fist DC do pretty decent damage and wrestle a frankenstien. I am not a subscriber to party roles, clerics do not have to just heal, the barbarian can sing ect.. I am not trying to be confrontational at all. My main goal is to increase the damage if possible. the rest I can take care of.
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and my "job" is to have fun punch mummys and make kungfu noises
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The problem with monks is, they're not a very "flexible" class. You're going to have a very hard time building a monk who can grapple, has high Stunning Fist DC's, and deals good damage. You're just trying to do too many things at once with a class that doesn't really have the wiggle room to do all 3. Pick two.
damage and grapple. If I had to
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Drop Turtle Style for Dragon Style, that's going to get your damage up, and should apply to your damage while grappling. Shift some of your wisdom bonus over to your DEX, that'll help make up some of the defense you lost, and help your reflex save and initiative besides. Only take Dragon Style, don't bother with the whole chain. Now grab Elemental Fist and Efreeti Style and we've got something resembling decent damage while still being a competent grappler. Your Stunning Fist isn't quite as potent, but you can keep throwing it on while you're grappling and see if you get lucky.
that is actually not a terrible idea Ssalarn. I think I will play with that if i take dragon ferocity doesnt it also bump my damage again? the style gives me 1-1/2 my str damage to my FIRST unarmed attack and the second chain adds half my str bonus to all my unarmed attacks and allows me to qualify for elemental fist.
honestly at this point I am playing with builds. I also have a Barbarian 1 Martial artist 9 built up that I may just apply some of the knowledge here to bump the build.
I am a very detailed person and I have an idea in my head that I like to stick to it can be a blessing and a curse.
I understand that the devs are working on it. but the monk should be a face punching murder machine! and I just cant seem to get them to do what I want.
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Welcome to the club. Pick ONE thing and ONE thing ONLY to be kind of fun to kind of play until you die. If you want to be a melee damage dealer and a grappler and use your high movement and have a high AC its just not going to work sadly. Little tweaks can make you OK in a few areas but you won't ever be that TOP DPR guy and you won't ever be the TOP battlefield control guy...you really should aim for second or third...
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The only way i've been able to make a monk do decent damage is to go monk(master of many styles) 2 (or 3 if you want monastic legacy), and the rest fighter(brawler) using either unarmed, brass knuckles, or cestus (if monk 2).
You abandon using stunning fist all together, but keep it so you can pick up the second dragon style making your unarmed attacks get str 1.5 on every hit, and str x2 on the first. Now you have better bab, better hp, more feats, better damage and +hit, you can wear armor (Look for mithril Breastplate), have decent saves from you levels in monk. The styles you will want will be dragon style and probably crane style. You will have 2 less skills a level, but you'll want your favored class to be fighter so you can make up 1 of them there. Take two weapon fighting chain since you gave up flurry(for a much better using 2 styles at once)
If you want the full build just let me know and i'll post it for you. It's not finished but it can pump out some decent damage and still be a decent maneuver user. Again though your stunning fists will be there just for show.
Um, you haven't listed your magic items at ALL. Steps to increase damage as a monk:
1 - Monk Robes: Treat your damage + AC as if 4 levels higher (will take damage from 1d10 to 2d6, which doesnt seem like a big jump but the increased minimum damage is big)
2 - Specialty magic items, or permanent magic spells. You will need these to do all the things you want to do. Including, but not limited to (and also highly dependent on what your GM allows):
a) Enlarge Person: take your 2d6 damage to 2d8, and another +2 to strength
b) Strong Jaw: increase your damage by 2 size categories. 2d8->4d6->(off the chart but im guessing 4d8). Iron Blades would also work here
c) GREATER MAGIC FANG (min CL 12). If you don't have this already then you're doing it wrong.
With these 4 magic items/spells your damage will increase from 1d10+6 to 4d8+10. It will run you dry for gold though. You are also missing the extremely obvious: power attack. -2 attack for +4 damage, OR if you can swing it by your DM, Dragon Ferocity adding another .5 str to each attack, Power attack reads
primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls.
so -2 attack for +6 damage.
You're now at +1 attack (thanks to Magic Fang) and 4d8+18 damage.
Throw in Vital Strike at 11 for fun. Move -> 8d8+21 damage -> grab (thanks Tetori).
With this in mind, think of your level 15 damage. As a large monk your base damage is already 4d8. WTF happens to 3d8 when it goes up 2 sizes? 3d8->6d8 it looks like. Take improved Vital Strike. Move -> 18d8+24(+) -> grab/constrict -> 6d8+21.
Monks are easy. Just VERY item dependent, and you need a DM willing to let you get the things you need.
Um, you haven't listed your magic items at ALL. Steps to increase damage as a monk:
1 - Monk Robes: Treat your damage + AC as if 4 levels higher (will take damage from 1d10 to 2d6, which doesnt seem like a big jump but the increased minimum damage is big)
2 - Specialty magic items, or permanent magic spells. You will need these to do all the things you want to do. Including, but not limited to (and also highly dependent on what your GM allows):
a) Enlarge Person: take your 2d6 damage to 2d8, and another +2 to strength
b) Strong Jaw: increase your damage by 2 size categories. 2d8->4d6->(off the chart but im guessing 4d8). Iron Blades would also work here
c) GREATER MAGIC FANG (min CL 12). If you don't have this already then you're doing it wrong.With these 4 magic items/spells your damage will increase from 1d10+6 to 4d8+10. It will run you dry for gold though. You are also missing the extremely obvious: power attack. -2 attack for +4 damage, OR if you can swing it by your DM, Dragon Ferocity adding another .5 str to each attack, Power attack reads
primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls.so -2 attack for +6 damage.
You're now at +1 attack (thanks to Magic Fang) and 4d8+18 damage.
Throw in Vital Strike at 11 for fun. Move -> 8d8+21 damage -> grab (thanks Tetori).With this in mind, think of your level 15 damage. As a large monk your base damage is already 4d8. WTF happens to 3d8 when it goes up 2 sizes? 3d8->6d8 it looks like. Take improved Vital Strike. Move -> 18d8+24(+) -> grab/constrict -> 6d8+21.
Monks are easy. Just VERY item dependent, and you need a DM willing to let you get the things you need.
items are here: it is level 10 WBL so 62000 is all I have
Other Gear Belt of giant strength +2, Bracers of armor +3, Headband of inspired wisdom +6, Monk's robe
Don't waste gold on bracers of armor. Get a level 1 pearl of power and have the wizard cast mage armor on you too. 1000g for +4ac.
You also wasted all your gold on your wisdom headband. 36k/62k, you should not have a single item worth that much. That was your first (and honestly biggest) mistake. The single AC, Ki, and DC to stunning fist was really not worth the 20k at this level (above a +4 headband)
Don't waste gold on bracers of armor. Get a level 1 pearl of power and have the wizard cast mage armor on you too. 1000g for +4ac.
You also wasted all your gold on your wisdom headband. 36k/62k, you should not have a single item worth that much. That was your first (and honestly biggest) mistake. The single AC, Ki, and DC to stunning fist was really not worth the 20k at this level (above a +4 headband)
how would I use the pearl of power I can't cast spells?
actually you know what I like this build and will stick with it thanks for the advise every body. I think I may increase the DC of the Stunning fist. but I like it.
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I notice actually that the tetori loses very little by wearing armour. Grab the Armour Expert trait and you'll be able to wear a masterwork or +1 chain shirt with virtually no penalties.
This will not only leave you free to lower your wisdom slightly, it'll also let you pick up the fantastic brawler enhancement from Ultimate Equipment to increase your unarmed damage.
Don't waste gold on bracers of armor. Get a level 1 pearl of power and have the wizard cast mage armor on you too. 1000g for +4ac.
I don't get it - spend 1K (and a few actions) EVERY DAY? Why not buy a wand of it, which would cost less (750 gp instead of 1000 gp) and would give you 50 mage armors instead of 1?
Don't waste gold on bracers of armor. Get a level 1 pearl of power and have the wizard cast mage armor on you too. 1000g for +4ac.I don't get it - spend 1K (and a few actions) EVERY DAY? Why not buy a wand of it, which would cost less (750 gp instead of 1000 gp) and would give you 50 mage armors instead of 1?
Because casting the spell lasts 10 hours, and the Pearl of Power is not a consumable. Cast mage armor at the start of the day, pearl, cast on monk.
Wanding mage armor means doing it when you need it, and not having it 'ready' at all times during the adventuring day. 10 hours of mage armor costs 10 wand charges, so 150g. You would quickly wrack that cost up day to day.
Oh, I didn't realize Pearls of Power aren't consumed by use. It did seem strange they were so expensive...
I notice actually that the tetori loses very little by wearing armour. Grab the Armour Expert trait and you'll be able to wear a masterwork or +1 chain shirt with virtually no penalties.
This will not only leave you free to lower your wisdom slightly, it'll also let you pick up the fantastic brawler enhancement from Ultimate Equipment to increase your unarmed damage.
don't I need an armor proficiency?
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Yea and if you have a Sorceror/Spontaneous caster instead of a Wizard there is a Rune that is the equivalent to the Pearl of Power. I can't remember where or what it is but I am sure someone here can link it or name it for me.
Edit: Didn't realize it was such an easy name...Runestone of Power is in the Pathfinder Society Field Guide so its PFS legal (and should be home game legal).
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don't I need an armor proficiency?I notice actually that the tetori loses very little by wearing armour. Grab the Armour Expert trait and you'll be able to wear a masterwork or +1 chain shirt with virtually no penalties.
This will not only leave you free to lower your wisdom slightly, it'll also let you pick up the fantastic brawler enhancement from Ultimate Equipment to increase your unarmed damage.
Armour proficiency's only function is removing the penalties to attack rolls from armour check penalty. If the armour you're wearing has no armour check penalty, you take no penalties, whether you're proficient or not.
The Armour Expert trait reduces your AC penalty by 1, making a masterwork chain shirt or mithral breastplate both wearable without any penalties whatsoever.
did a Unarmed fighter build and came up with him I like him better unfortunatly I think he fits my idea better then the tetori. I hope they make the monk amazing:
El Lobo Magnifico
Versatile Human (Azlanti) Fighter (Unarmed Fighter) 10
CG Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +4; Senses Perception +11
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Defense
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AC 23, touch 15, flat-footed 19 (+7 armor, +4 Dex, +1 natural, +1 deflection)
hp 89 (10d10+30)
Fort +10, Ref +7, Will +4; +3 vs. exhausted, fatigued, staggered, or temporary penalties to ability scores, +1 vs. exhausted, fatigued, staggered, or temporary penalties to ability scores, +1 vs. exhausted, fatigued, staggered, or temporary penalties to ability scores
Defensive Abilities Harsh Training +3; DR 5/lethal
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee Unarmed strike +21/+16 (1d3+20/x2)
Special Attacks Trick Throw, Weapon Training +2
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Statistics
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Str 21/27, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 11, Wis 12, Cha 9
Base Atk +10; CMB +18 (+26 Grappling); CMD 33 (43 vs. Bull Rush, 45 vs. Grapple)
Feats Boar Style, Combat Reflexes (5 AoO/round), Greater Grapple, Greater Weapon Focus (Unarmed strike), Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike, Pinning Knockout, Pinning Rend, Power Attack -3/+6, Rapid Grappler, Weapon Focus (Unarmed strike), Weapon Specialization (Unarmed strike)
Skills Climb +12, Perception +11, Survival +12, Swim +12
Languages Azlanti, Common
SQ Brawling, Clever Wrestler, Versatile Human
Combat Gear +3 Brawling Mithral Chain shirt; Other Gear Amulet of natural armor +1, Belt of giant strength +6, Gauntlet of the skilled maneuver (grapple), Ring of protection +1
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Special Abilities
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Boar Style Unarmed strikes deal bludgeoning or piercing damage
Brawling Unarmed strikes count as magic for bypassing DR.
Clever Wrestler (Ex) At 7th level, an unarmed fighter takes no penalties to Dexterity or on attack rolls while grappled, and retains his Dexterity bonus to AC while pinning an opponent. The unarmed fighter can make attacks of opportunity even when grappled and even again
Combat Reflexes (5 AoO/round) You may make up to 5 attacks of opportunity per round, and may make them while flat-footed.
Damage Reduction (5/lethal) You have Damage Reduction against non-lethal damage
Greater Grapple +2 to grapple, maintaining a grapple is a move action.
Harsh Training +3 (Ex) +3 Will save vs. effects that cause exhausted, fatigued, or staggered conditions or temporary penalties to ability scores
Improved Grapple You grapple at +2, with no attacks of opportunity allowed.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Pinning Knockout Against a pinned opponent, you may double nonlethal damage with grapple check
Pinning Rend Against pinned opponent, you may deal bleed damage with Grapple check
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Rapid Grappler Spend a swift action to make a combat maneuver check to grapple while using Greater Grapple
Trick Throw (Ex) Attempt a dirty trick maneuver on a foe you successfully trip with an unarmed attack.
Versatile Human While they lack some of the training of other humans, the natural talents of versatile humans more than make up for this lack. Replace the +2 bonus to any ability score, the skilled racial trait, and the bonus feat racial trait with dual talent.
Weapon Training +2 (Ex) +2 to hit and damage with monk and natural weapons.
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Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Publishing, LLC®, and are used under license.
and my "job" is to have fun punch mummys and make kungfu noises
Make Bruce Lee noises whenever you attack. You won't actually be doing any extra damage, but it'll sound like you are.
You're missing gloves of dueling. 15,000 gp for +2 to your weapon training. You can probably afford a +1 off of your armour.
I would also suggest going for a +4/+4 belt instead of a +6. Slightly pricier for either a lot more hit points or +2 to AC, initiative, etc.
thanks. I also have to select my 2 traits. Mergy can you fill me in on the Cetus? is it worth it to move all my feats over to the Cetus and take critical focus? the way I am reading the Cetus is that it allows me to use my unarmed damage?
I also threw in improved TWF
The problem with your monk is that you have broken the golden rule, you have maxed out Wisdom rather than Strength or Dexterity. That said, his damage output is pretty good for a level 10 monk. If he can tie down one foe at higher levels, he's doing very well. I can see why you went Snapping Turtle, though, as his AC is pretty bad.
The problem with your monk is that you have broken the golden rule, you have maxed out Wisdom rather than Strength or Dexterity. That said, his damage output is pretty good for a level 10 monk. If he can tie down one foe at higher levels, he's doing very well. I can see why you went Snapping Turtle, though, as his AC is pretty bad.
pretty bad? I have it at 33 is that terrible for a monk?
Sorry, your stat-block says:
"AC 26, touch 23, flat-footed 23 (+3 armor, +3 Dex)"
26 is not brilliant for a monk at level 10. It's not awful, but not brilliant. If you are boosting it higher with ki and other options, it's a different matter, but ki cannot be relied upon at all times.
Sorry, your stat-block says:
"AC 26, touch 23, flat-footed 23 (+3 armor, +3 Dex)"
26 is not brilliant for a monk at level 10. It's not awful, but not brilliant. If you are boosting it higher with ki and other options, it's a different matter, but ki cannot be relied upon at all times.
my bad.
I have been trying to flush out the perfect build for so long my head hurts. I even tried a monk level 2 fighter level 8 and he had a 29 AC. That build actually worked quite well.
Honestly I really like the Cetus with its good Crit range.
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S'OK, I make doozies too.
Yep, it's sad that a monk dip can make a fighter a better monk than a monk.
Actually, they don't need the monk dip.
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You won't deal your UAS damage with a cestus, though based on the way it is written it sounds like you could equip one and have the option of dealing piercing damage with an unarmed strike... I can tell you with absolute certainty though that the designers have adamantly stated on numerous occasions that they will not give a weapon capable of dealing monk unarmed strike damage and being enchanted like a normal weapon. So if you're using the cestus, you're dealing 1d4 damage.
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You won't deal your UAS damage with a cestus, though based on the way it is written it sounds like you could equip one and have the option of dealing piercing damage with an unarmed strike... I can tell you with absolute certainty though that the designers have adamantly stated on numerous occasions that they will not give a weapon capable of dealing monk unarmed strike damage and being enchanted like a normal weapon. So if you're using the cestus, you're dealing 1d4 damage.
I actually consider static damage more important than base damage and the Cestus can be critical-ed out to 17-20. which I think would be more effective.
I may look again at a monk dip and take away the armor of brawling for gloce sof dueling.
what do you think is a more effective archetpe? brawler or unarmed fighter?
I think unarmed fighter is a better grapple build as when you are grappling you get DR/-.
"Tough Guy (Ex)
At 3rd level, an unarmed fighter gains DR/— equal to half his fighter level against nonlethal damage or damage taken while he is grappled. "
Even if you decide to dip monk you should still use light armor, as long as your wis isn't crazy good.
Dipping MoMS will increase your saves and allow you two use to styles at once, which is pretty damn good.
At level 10 you should be able to afford both a +1 Brawling Mithral Chain Shirt, and the gloves of dueling.
my problem is I can get better AC with a dip in monk and maxing out my Wis than I can with the Armor. unless I am doing it wrong? the unarmed fighter only gets light armor
The problem with the cestus with a monk dip is that you're rolling d3s. d3s require an extra calculation step. If you're already dipping monk you can be rolling d6s. d6s are easier.
If you get enlarged that's d4s and d8s. D4s are easier than d3s, but are still read in a nonstandard fashion and don't roll very well. D8s are read normally and roll just fine.
If you're not dipping monk you're stuck with d3s anyways though and might as well do the cestus, except that it's a hand slot item that isn't gloves of dueling, which kind of makes it not so great.
cestus is d4.
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The problem with the cestus with a monk dip is that you're rolling d3s. d3s require an extra calculation step. If you're already dipping monk you can be rolling d6s. d6s are easier.
If you get enlarged that's d4s and d8s. D4s are easier than d3s, but are still read in a nonstandard fashion and don't roll very well. D8s are read normally and roll just fine.
If you're not dipping monk you're stuck with d3s anyways though and might as well do the cestus, except that it's a hand slot item that isn't gloves of dueling, which kind of makes it not so great.
ROFL - I've never seen somebody argue that a particular weapon shouldn't be used because it is hard to roll those dice - or that a particular type of die doesn't "roll very well."
That is a very illogical approach to optimizing a build!