| bookrat |
This is a rules question for Pathfinder Society - not house rules.
Haunts blur the line between monsters and traps. You can read about them here.
Each haunt has a very specific way to destroy it completely, individualized by the haunt.
To use the example in the book:
Bleeding Walls CR 5
XP: 1,600
CE haunt (5 ft. by 20 ft. hallway)Caster Level 5th
Notice: Perception DC 20 (to hear the sound of soft sobbing)
hp: 10; Trigger proximity; Reset 1 dayEffect: When this haunt is triggered, thick rivulets of blood course down the walls accompanied by the shrill shriek of a woman's scream. All creatures in the hallway are targeted by a fear spell (save DC 16).
Destruction: The body of the maid entombed behind the walls must be extracted and given a proper burial.
My question is: how would the players/characters know how to destroy the haunt? Haunt's seem like undead, so a K:Religion check seems appropriate; however, flavor-wise it doesn't make sense. How would the character know about something that specific? It's not like they've studied every haunt in existence. Additionally, haunts always have a bit of history behind them, so would it be K:History or K:Local? Would a spell give them that information (and if so, which one?). Or do the players have to figure it out via role-play within the game?
In the PFS game I ran, one of the haunts was destroyed by doing a good deed in the name of each of the souls bound to the haunt. It's kind of cool for flavor, but of course the AP didn't give any information about who the souls were (names, importance to the plot line, etc).
If there's no RAW for this, then what have other PFS GM's done in this scenario?
Unfortunately, none of the players at the table (who were all experienced PFS Members) had encountered haunts before, and I had only encountered them once before (but as a player, not a GM). I ended up just ruling that a high enough K:Religion check would allow the character to know how to destroy it, but I would really like an official ruling on this.
| Dominigo |
By the book, there is no way to determine it. Generally I think it assumed that the PCs will find out by researching the haunt and perhaps using some form of magic to communicate with the dead that are involved with the haunt. There is also an item in the first book of Carrion Crown that could help, but I doubt it is in PFS.
| bookrat |
They way I did it was K:Religion DC 10+CR to identify it as a haunt, and with an additional 5 above the roll, they could ask one question, which was usually "How do we destroy the haunt."
Remember, the rules for Knowledge checks state that identifying a monster is 10+CR (depending on how common the monster is, it could be 5+CR or 15+CR), and for each 5 above the DC the player gets one question to ask about it. Common questions are "what is it immune to?" or "what are its weaknesses?"
DC 25+CR seems reasonable to identify how to destroy it, though. Or perhaps DC 20+CR.
| Kydeem de'Morcaine |
I thought 25, because each haunt is unique. You know how to counter one patch of brown mold, you know how to counter them all. Haunts are more like unique monsters that nobody's ever encountered before.
The 25+CR seems to high to me. I have usually only encountered haunts in low level adventures. Knowledge religion is usually only the religious classes that take it. Int 14 is actually pretty high. Say 3rd level and max ranks in class skill. Unless he has a trait or feat to raise it (never seen anyone take it) even higher the max you can get is a 28. Most of the times I've encountered them, they have been 1 to 2 CR above the APL. so that would mean I would have to have a 29 or 30 to succeed.
| bookrat |
Chris Mortika wrote:I thought 25, because each haunt is unique. You know how to counter one patch of brown mold, you know how to counter them all. Haunts are more like unique monsters that nobody's ever encountered before.The 25+CR seems to high to me. I have usually only encountered haunts in low level adventures. Knowledge religion is usually only the religious classes that take it. Int 14 is actually pretty high. Say 3rd level and max ranks in class skill. Unless he has a trait or feat to raise it (never seen anyone take it) even higher the max you can get is a 28. Most of the times I've encountered them, they have been 1 to 2 CR above the APL. so that would mean I would have to have a 29 or 30 to succeed.
In the game I ran, it was levels 5-7, and the haunts were CR 6-7.
Larry Lichman
Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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Haunts are interesting in that not only are they a combination of a creature and a trap, they are also a combination of crunch and fluff.
I don't think there is any way RAW to determine how to destroy a haunt with a roll of the dice. If you look at the published adventures that use haunts (Carrion Crown comes to mind), haunts are filled with local flavor and tied in some way to the storyline. The key to determining how to destroy them lies in doing research about the origin of the haunt and how it relates to the overall plot of the adventure. Once this research is done, it is possible for the PCs to learn how to destroy the haunt.
One thing to keep in mind: From a published adventure perspective, it is not always necessary for the PCs to completely destroy the haunt to complete the adventure's objective. Sometimes, a haunt is just there for flavor, as a red herring, as a delaying tactic, or as a key piece of evidence tied to the adventure's true objective.
In PFS, I would hope the adventure includes the appropriate local flavor and research options if the objective really is to destroy the haunt. Otherwise, I would think the haunt is not a true objective for successfully completing the scenario, but is there to add flavor or to advance the plot in some way.
Hope this helps!
Jiggy
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Sometimes, a haunt is just there for flavor, as a red herring, as a delaying tactic, or as a key piece of evidence tied to the adventure's true objective.
I have yet to encounter any such justification for a haunt. In theory I agree with you, but I haven't seen it in practice (yet). Usually it feels more like a trap, except with no reason for it to be there and no way to search it out and disable it.
| bookrat |
You can disable a haunt (ie prevent its effects) by the following means;
1) Trap goes off; Roll initiative (haunts are always go on 10)
2) If you go before the haunt, you can roll a perception check to notice it, and if you succeed, you have to do enough positive energy damage to nullify it.
If you do enough positive energy damage, then you won't be subject to the effects until the haunt is triggered again. They have reset times of anywhere from 1 round to 1 week.
The only way to get rid of it completely is to destroy it. While in a home game, such as running Carrion Crown, it's perfectly reasonable to require the players to do research in town to figure out the story behind it.
In a PFS game, which is 4 hours long and a single scenario, having the players try to figure it out is a waste of time and can delay the players (not just the characters) from other obligations, and if they have to leave the game before it is finished because we ran out of time (our game actually went an hour over schedule, but none of the players had to leave), then they might not get the rewards for their characters.
I understand that the characters might not be able to destroy a haunt, but there needs to be something in place that at least lets them figure out how to destroy it. Sometimes it is obvious, like laying a dead body to rest. But even if you knew the background behind the haunt in the game I ran (in the spoiler)...
...how would the characters know how to destroy it? That's not something you can easily figure out. There are no bodies to lay to rest, there's no names to be discovered, few alive would know who they are. You have to do a good dead in their name. The other way was to kill the BBEG, but how would they know to do that, as well? Besides the fact that they're probably going to destroy the BBEG anyways, and just by chance end up destroy the haunt, but that's just not as satisfying for either me as the GM or the players.
And of course, players who know there's a way to destroy a haunt are going to try to destroy it, regardless if it's one of their missions.
Jorin
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I have yet to encounter any such justification for a haunt. In theory I agree with you, but I haven't seen it in practice (yet). Usually it feels more like a trap, except with no reason for it to be there and no way to search it out and disable it.
In Curse of the Golden Spear series, the visions associated with some of the haunts give some foreshadowing of future events. And so far, the visions and a little logic (with a dab of lucky guessing) have been enough for the party to figure out how to destroy them.
| gamer-printer |
While I can see a reliance on Knowledge (religion) for many haunts, I could just as easily see Knowledge (local), for aristocratic haunts using Knowledge (noble), or Knowledge (planes) for a haunt involving an outsider - which best Knowledge skill would depend on the circumstances behind the haunt itself.
In Rite Publishing's Kaidan setting, haunts that are encountered and not laid to rest (destroyed) could have cursed ramifications to those who opt not to destroy the haunt.
It might be worth looking at #30 Haunts for Kaidan, and the other Haunt books by Rite Publishing as they give insight to GMs on how best to use haunts, and using haunts as plothooks to build a more exciting adventure rather than using haunts as something more like a trap.
| Brandon Hodge Contributor |
I think the most comprehensive review of the OP's question was after my Haunt article came out in Chapter 1 of Carrion Crown, and can be found here.
Short answer is Knowledge (local) or (religion) checks, DC 15+ haunt CR.
I seem to recall Mr. Schneider backed me up at some point in the thread, which is as official as you're likely to find unless this topic ends up as a FAQ at some point.