I've been GM for a couple years now. I focus on a lot of role-play and I wanna go in a new direction.
I'd really like to start designing some mega-dungeons for my players to hack, slash, and puzzle their way through. Is there any really good resource material anyone can suggest, other than the GMG? Which is a great resource, but not quite enough for mega-dungeoning. And yes mega-dungeoning does roll off the tongue nicely.
I've been GM for a couple years now. I focus on a lot of role-play and I wanna go in a new direction.
I'd really like to start designing some mega-dungeons for my players to hack, slash, and puzzle their way through. Is there any really good resource material anyone can suggest, other than the GMG? Which is a great resource, but not quite enough for mega-dungeoning. And yes mega-dungeoning does roll off the tongue nicely.
Dungeons of Golarion is a good resource that outlines several mega dungeons. It briefly describes them level-by-level, the inhabitants, backgrounds, and unique creatures and magic items. Published adventures are also good resources, even if you don't use all of the material. I recommend Maure Castle and The Black Monastery if you're so inclined. The old 2nd edition Ruins of Undermountain has some fantastic poster-sized maps that are ideal for this, although I found the book material to be weak.
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It's pricey, but the recently updated Rappan Athuk is a monstrously huge megadungeon in a remote wilderness area. It might provide either exactly what you're looking for or inspiration/ideas as to how to build one of your own.
If you're looking for something specific to Golarion, I'd second Luz's endorsement of Dungeons of Golarion. As he mentions, they're not as detailed or complete, but you get the broad outline and some history/lore surrounding half a dozen megadungeons throughout the Inner Sea.
The upcoming Dungeoneer's Handbook will presumably also be very useful (although it is going to be more for players than DMs).
Finally, I suspect the current AP is going to turn out to be a very useful source for megadungeoning inspiration. Although it's not a true megadungeon, my understanding is that each adventure will focus on a substantial amount of time trawling through dungeons.
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Depends on the route you want to take, but Raging Swan has some fantastic ways to turn your everyday dungeon crawls into something more. The tables they provide allow for great customization of your mega-dungeons.
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Raging Swan Press
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http://www.megadungeons.com/
I didn't know about this resource. Thanks very much for mentioning it.
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Look at other megadungeons. And don't limit yourself to just Pathfinder/3.X. There's some great megadungeons out there for other systems too, and some are even free.
Here's some notable ones:
Rappan Athuk
Castle Greyhawk
Dungeons of Castle Blackmoor
Castle Whiterock
Stonehell Dungeon
Castle of the Mad Archmage
Dragon's Delve (dungeonaday.com)
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I am no fan of megadungeons. While amusing, I think they are a sign of lazy GM'ing. Why? Because every dungeon should tell a story.
- Why is that dungeon there? Is it a fortification? Is it the remains of a city? A castle? Is it some secret lair carved out of the wilderness for some nefarious purpose? If you give your players the opportunity to learn WHY the dungeon exists, it lends a whole new element to the adventure.
"We eliminated the threat of the would-be lich. His days of hiding in the old ruins of castle Crom-Cruach are over."
instead of:
"We stumbled onto a door out in the woods that let into a thousand-room dungeon. There were bugbears living right next to a dragon for no apparent reason. We don't even know how the dragon was able to get out to get food, as the doorway was too small for him. Still, we made level 20 without ever seeing the light of day."
And I think Golberg's essay "The Sociology of Dungeons" is ridiculous, just as I think "Dungeons of Golarion" is woefully incomplete.
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And what if there IS a reason why it's there. Just because a dungeon is large, that doesn't mean that there's no reason for it to exist. To use the most notable recent example, there is a reason that Rappan Athuk exists (aside from killing and maiming adventurers).
Besides, a small dungeon is just as likely to be random and pointless as is a megadungeon.
It's funny you think Dungeons of Golarion is so "woefully incomplete", since it address the meat of your problem with megadungeons...it addresses WHY they are there. I'm not really sure what you expected from the product...certainly you didn't think that a 64-page book was going to give you a full writeup of six of Golarion's largest dungeons?
Wow, great response. Thanks everyone. Now I can give 'em a break from the same old, and hopefully learn a few new tricks for my arsenal.
Thank you, everyone. If I find anything really unique, I'll be sure to share it.
I plan on taking bits and pieces from them all, and making something great. This is so much info.
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Critter, here's a few links for you:
Rappan Athuk (Swords & Wizardry edition)
Rappan Athuk (Pathfinder edition)
The download link from that Castle of the Mad Archmage page doesnt work for me (it says the file is set to private). Does anyone know if there's a publically accessible version anywhere?
Check out the Tome of Adventure Design from Frog God Games
Look at other megadungeons. And don't limit yourself to just Pathfinder/3.X. There's some great megadungeons out there for other systems too, and some are even free.
Here's some notable ones:
Rappan Athuk
Castle Greyhawk
Dungeons of Castle Blackmoor
Castle Whiterock
Stonehell Dungeon
Castle of the Mad Archmage
Dragon's Delve (dungeonaday.com)
Agreed. I was awfully partial to 2nd Edition's Dragon Mountain back in the day. If you and your group have not played the original Temple of Elemental Evil, I would highly suggest it, as so many of us cut our teeth on that dungeon.
Another thought: Find a few dungeons/adventures that you really like and "fold" them together into your own megadungeon. Spend a bit of time fleshing out how they dovetail by expanding undeveloped ideas within each or creating some interludes yourself in order to link them.
I wouldn't let the edition scare you since it is so easy to convert older editions with the help of tools like Herolab and the assistance the folks on messageboards like these.
Again, thanks so much. My idea is to take all the info and use it to design my own. I just needed fresh ideas and new ways to think about the game cause, like I was saying, I tend to lean on character/NPC interaction. I think I was losing one of my players.
I originally thought I'd mix it up, but it was their suggestion that we alternate weekly gaming styles. I do some short story writing, so role-play comes easy for me. I just didn't have the tools to design a huge hack, slash, and puzzle game.
All these sources have given me a lot to think about and play with. Everyone was so helpful and nice. It's refreshing to find that in strangers these days.