I know it's been discussed before, but I don't recall if it was ever officially answered: If my magus casts a melee touch spell and holds onto the charge, can he move it into his melee weapon when he makes his next attack?
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A magus doesn't move a spell into his melee weapon; he can use his melee weapon to deliver a spell he would normally deliver using a melee touch attack (assuming he's level 2 or higher, and so can use the spellstrike ability). The spell may pass through the weapon, but it isn't stored there - the spell is held by the magus, not the weapon.
Once he's cast the spell, he either needs to discharge it, or deliver it (by touching someone, or making a melee touch attack, or deliver it via his weapon using a melee attack). The first time any of those events happens, the spell will be delivered.
Actually, going by the spellstrike text, I would say that it isn't possible.
Spellstrike specifically calls out "Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell.".
A touch attack made on a later turn, isn't the free touch attack granted by casting the spell. Additionally it isn't part of casting the spell.
As such, spellstrike cannot be used with held touch spells.
IMO it can be problematic to allow, since abuse is possible. By walking around with a held charge, the magus would effectively gain two spellstrikes in the first round (or by holding back, and waiting for the enemy to get in full attack range). Spellstriking the first attack, then using spell combat for another.
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Actually, going by the spellstrike text, I would say that it isn't possible.
Spellstrike specifically calls out "Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell.".
A touch attack made on a later turn, isn't the free touch attack granted by casting the spell. Additionally it isn't part of casting the spell.
As such, spellstrike cannot be used with held touch spells.IMO it can be problematic to allow, since abuse is possible. By walking around with a held charge, the magus would effectively gain two spellstrikes in the first round (or by holding back, and waiting for the enemy to get in full attack range). Spellstriking the first attack, then using spell combat for another.
I agree...I think this is one of things that is abused with this class very often. Casting, moving in and attacking in the same round...in essence getting 2 standards and a move. When it should move in, cast defensively (chance to lose the spell) and use the free melee attack as part of the casting.
This should clear things up pretty well. In case you don't feel like following the link, it's SKR explaining Spellstrike and how it interacts with the normal touch spell rules.
From the FAQ.
"Can a magus use spellstrike (Ultimate Magic, page 10) to cast a touch spell, move, and make a melee attack with a weapon to deliver the touch spell, all in the same round?
Yes. Other than deploying the spell with a melee weapon attack instead of a melee touch attack, the magus spellstrike ability doesn’t change the normal rules for using touch spells in combat (Core Rulebook 185). So, just like casting a touch spell, a magus could use spellstrike to cast a touch spell, take a move toward an enemy, then (as a free action) make a melee attack with his weapon to deliver the spell.
On a related topic, the magus touching his held weapon doesn’t count as “touching anything or anyone” when determining if he discharges the spell. A magus could even use the spellstrike ability, miss with his melee attack to deliver the spell, be disarmed by an opponent (or drop the weapon voluntarily, for whatever reason), and still be holding the charge in his hand, just like a normal spellcaster. Furthermore, the weaponless magus could pick up a weapon (even that same weapon) with that hand without automatically discharging the spell, and then attempt to use the weapon to deliver the spell. However, if the magus touches anything other than a weapon with that hand (such as retrieving a potion), that discharges the spell as normal.
Basically, the spellstrike gives the magus more options when it comes to delivering touch spells; it’s not supposed to make it more difficult for the magus to use touch spells.
Sean K Reynolds
Designer"
I honestly can't believe anyone questioned this. Its very clear in 3.5 in PF a caster can take their move between casting and using the free touch to diver a spell. All spellstrike does is change that free touch into an attack. It does not change how it interacts with moving.
I disagree. The spellstrike ability allows the magus to deliver touch spells through any weapon he holds at any point in time. He just won't get free attacks in future rounds if holding a charge.
/sigh, I need to type faster.
The problem is that nothing in the text suggests that. The spellstrike ability doesn't even suggest that the magus can deliver any touch spells through his weapon. It states that the free touch attack can be replaced with a free melee weapon attack delivering the spell. Thus is still happens on turn used for casting the spell (before or after movement).
Sean's reply indirectly suggest that it can be used to deliver touch spells held. But given that he responds to a different question, it remains unclear.
Even if that is the intended rule, I would remain cautious, since the abuse is potentially doubling the spellstriking capabilities of the magus.
How on earth is it still unclear?
He spells out in great detail that the magus can use the spellstrike in later rounds.
Furthermore, the weaponless magus could pick up a weapon (even that same weapon) with that hand without automatically discharging the spell, and then attempt to use the weapon to deliver the spell.
If you don't like it, houserule it, but it was made crystal clear how it works.
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I agree...I think this is one of things that is abused with this class very often. Casting, moving in and attacking in the same round...in essence getting 2 standards and a move. When it should move in, cast defensively (chance to lose the spell) and use the free melee attack as part of the casting.
Yep I read the FAQ and I was wrong...it seems you can cast, move and then attack all in one round based on FAQ. Seems a little crazy since the it is two standards, casting and attacking in one round...played a game a low level game with a Magus and they pretty much killed everything in a single hit doing 15 to 20 a strike to everything all day.
Thank you, Stome. I hadn't realized it made it into the FAQ yet.
Maxximilius, I prefer frostbite.
it seems you can cast, move and then attack all in one round based on FAQ. Seems a little crazy since the it is two standards, casting and attacking in one round...
It's not two standards. It's a standard, a move, and a free action.
In the same round that you cast a touch spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action. (Touch Spells in Combat)
Spellstrike lets you deliver a touch spell (that you cast, from the magus spell list) with your weapon. This doesn't change the action needed to make the attack. If it was free, then it's still free. If it's a round later and it's a standard, then it's still a standard.
Magus casts a touch spell and tries to attack using Spellstrike class feature and misses.
Next round
Magus is still holding the charge for the Touch spell. How does it effect his Full attack options during this round?
The same way it would for a sorcerer: not at all.
The sorcerer(magus) can choose to make a touch attack as a standard action, or full-attack with his unarmed strikes(sword) and discharge the spell with the first one that hits.
All Spellstrike does is let you deliver the spell with your sword, instead of any of the other usual options (touch/unarmed strike/natural weapon).
Note that if the magus chooses to use Spell Combat while holding the charge, the spell dissipates as soon as he casts a spell. So if he attacks first, and misses, he's going to lose the held charge when he casts.
Magus takes a full attack and his first action is to cast and use shocking grasp with Spellstrike.
Casting shocking grasp is a standard action, unless he's quickened it, but either way, it doesn't happen during a full attack.
He misses with that attack but still holds the charge. Can he use that charge with his two full attack actions?
Are you asking about Spell Combat? Your wording is way off, which is confusing. A full attack is a full-round action comprised of (usually) multiple attacks. Not attack actions, just attacks.
If a level 8 Magus (who has BAB+6) uses Spell Combat, which is a full-round action, he can cast a spell. If he casts a touch spell, that grants him a touch attack as a free action, any time during his turn. Lets say he casts Shocking Grasp. He takes his free touch attack, and uses Spellstrike to deliver it with his longsword. He makes a regular melee attack against normal (not touch!) AC. If he hits, he deals weapon damage and discharges the shocking grasp. If he misses, the spell is not discharged. Now he makes his normal attacks with his weapon. (Two of them, due to BAB+6/+1) If either of those two attacks hit, he can also discharge the shocking grasp in addition to the regular melee damage.
Lets say all three attacks miss. The magus is now holding the charge. Next round he uses Spell Combat again, but chooses to make his attacks first. He does so, and if either of them hit, they discharge the shocking grasp. Then he casts his spell. If that spell is a touch spell, he once again gets a free action touch attack, and can use his sword instead of a touch.
If he missed with the two regular attacks on round two, he's hosed, because casting the spell causes his held charge to dissipate.
Here's A Guide to Touch Spells, Spellstrike, and Spell Combat you might find useful.