Okay, so one of my players wants to eventually go Mystic Theurge. To that end he was going to play a vanilla Cleric & wizard spellslinger after burning through a dozen or so concepts.
Yet now, he's come to me saying he's found a way to go Mystic Theurge as soon as 4th level. Apparently the plan is to go 2 levels in cleric, utilizing the Forgemaster archtype, in combination with the Heightened Spell Metamagic feat.
The trick is, that the Forgemaster's ability Divine Smith, "reduces the total level adjustment to the spell by 1" for metamagic feats. Thus, with Heighten Spell, he's technically casting level 1 spells as level 2 spells for both Wizard and cleric using this combination. And in so doing he claims he technically qualifies for Mystic Theurge as he is able to cast "2nd-level divine spells" and "2nd-level arcane spells", even though his selection is limited to boosted 1st level spells that qualify for Divine Smith(namely spells that target weapons, shields, or armor).
So my question is, does this legally fulfill the requisite for MT by RAW? Cause while this reeks of cheese, I've never found the M.T. to be overpowered and geting to it early could help offset a lot of problems I have with the PrC. Also, it seems that with this archtype he's going to be severly gimping himself(namely 1 domain and no channel on the cleric? ouch). So all that said, at the same time I don't want to give him something to play if it's not legal so... What's your verdict?
Heighten raises the spell level. Divine Smith lowers it. End result: nothing.
Mind you, as the GM it's your call whether you want this sort of cheese.
Heighten raises the spell level. Divine Smith lowers it. End result: nothing.
Mind you, as the GM it's your call whether you want this sort of cheese.
I guess I'll just going to explain to him that despite them being treated as 2nd level spells and using 2nd level DCs, since they still use 1st level spell slots they don't count as 2nd level spells. I'm not sure how that's going to sit actually :/
And I really don't, hence why I came on the boards about it. Still, it was pretty clever and from a certain point of view I could see how it could have worked since it "actually increases the effective level of the spell that it modifies".
I have a player who came to me with this idea for the game I'm running now. I agree with everyone that it doesn't work by RAW, but I'm letting him get away with it because I don't think it's going to be problematically powerful. I'm a lot less concerned about it than I was about his perfectly legal synthesist summoner. :)
I have a player who came to me with this idea for the game I'm running now. I agree with everyone that it doesn't work by RAW, but I'm letting him get away with it because I don't think it's going to be problematically powerful. I'm a lot less concerned about it than I was about his perfectly legal synthesist summoner. :)
Haha, well I think everyone agrees the Synthesist is "broken" in that it actively allows for someone to dump 3 stats yet still buy feats with their eidolon's.
Have you played with this character yet? Cause, aside from the cheese of it all, I'm sorta of thinking that this character won't have the same utility as a normal cleric early levels.
I mean, the forgemaster's inscriptions take a full-round to do; 2 For it to last the duration of the encounter, and so on. In combat that's action economy hell, as where channel energy, even the lower level version the cleric would have as he graduates to MT would retain it's in combat effectiveness. So how's he do in combat?
We're only one session in, and he decided to start with wizard, so he mostly just casts sleep a couple of times and then daze over and over. :)
We're only one session in, and he decided to start with wizard, so he mostly just casts sleep a couple of times and then daze over and over. :)
Ha, well fair enough. I suppose I might do the same with some restrictions.
The entire point of heighten spell is to raise the level. If you're not raising the level then you're not raising the level.
The entire point of heighten spell is to raise the level. If you're not raising the level then you're not raising the level.
There are a number of traits class features and feats though that reduce the increased effective level from metamagic feats, such as Magical lineage and this divine forge.
Are you saying that these abilities don't work with Heighten Spell without reducing it's effectiveness? Cause on that point I'd disagree, despite being of the opinion that such an adjusted spell shouldn't count for the MT reqs.
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It has been clarified that the intent is that you need to be able to cast 2nd level spells by your spells class feature only. The heighten spell feat or casting spell-like abilities do not work.
Are you playing in a homebrew game ? If the player is dead set on playing a caster with spells from several spell lists, you may suggest him to rework his character with Super Genius Games's really cool Magister instead. :)
It has been clarified that the intent is that you need to be able to cast 2nd level spells by your spells class feature only. The heighten spell feat or casting spell-like abilities do not work.
Are you playing in a homebrew game ? If the player is dead set on playing a caster with spells from several spell lists, you may suggest him to rework his character with Super Genius Games's really cool Magister instead. :)
Ah, well that simplifies the matter even more. Do you happen to have a link?
I am running a homebrew game, however I've been trying to stick to Paizo material... Especially after a player came to me asking if he could spend his starting money on these "balanced" prothetics I decided to stick to paizo material only for the moment. Though, that does seem like a pretty cool class.
Heighten increases the effective level, not the actual level so no his idea does not work.