I was asking to join a preexisting group about the start the second adventure of Jade Regent and was thinking for making a Werebear Ulfen Ranger. There are three of them and they're all level five at the moment; because of some generous DMing on creation they have some pretty beefy stats as well. If I was starting at level one I would never consider it, but now that everybody is level five I was thinking there is enough wiggle room to make a natural lycanthrope work. I was looking for different opinions on how as players or DM's how you'd attempt to make it work.
Firstly I want to bring up the points I thought most significant. Because I'm not part of the original party my character would most likely encounter the group as a complete stranger and would be very guarded about being a lycanthrope. Though it might be more accepted in the Land of Linnorm Kings there is nothing saying these characters would have the same views. Meaning there would be no transforming in the middle of battle to munchkin it up and hog the limelight. Also as the mysterious stranger there is ample opportunity for me to make myself scarce at night to keep them guessing.
Secondly, Werebears as LG when they transform so there would be no conflict in alignment with the party (unless I'm unknowingly walking into an evil campaign). I could start shifting from CG to NG as a result of my actions but that is hardly a deal breaker.
Lastly the damage reduction. I can't honestly think of a good way to get around a DR 10/silver. It takes +3 on a magic weapon to overcome it outright and considering the Jade Regent himself only has a +3 that might be a little unreasonable. I have considered afflicted instead of natural, but I'd probably want a way to gain control over at some point.
Let me know what you think and thanks in advance.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/lycanthrope
Maybe I'm just missing it, but where does it say that your alignment changes when you shift to your hybrid form? For that matter, where does it say that lycanthropes have a predetermined alignment anyway?
A friend of mine used to say the same thing before he discovered that the alignment talk was something that existed in 3.5 but there were no such Pathfinder rules on it we could find.
Other than that, ask your GM if it'd be possible to use the natural lycanthrope shifting rules but the afflicted lycanthrope DR 5/silver.
Its not shifting forms that causes your alignment shift, its the evil acts that get performed by the lycanthrope. For instance if a CG character became an afflicted werewolf there alignment would slowly start changing toward evil because of the predatory nature of the curse. Shifting into a new form and slaughtering the small village you grew up in down to the last man isn't going to do anything nice for your alignment, whether you had control of yourself or not. Atleast that's my understanding, sorry if I was ambiguous or flat out mistaken. From my understanding of the description, Werebears don't have the same compulsions as Werewolves, Weretigers and the like.
The DR idea is simple yet effective, I like it. It still wouldn't be overcome very easily, but DR 5 is much less impactful as bad guys start consistently getting multiple attacks per round. Thank you for your input.
This isn't meant to be a criticism, just curiosity:
If you aren't wanting to change shape in battle, why bother with it?
Not that I mind the concept- but you are sucking up a pretty hefty level penalty for things you aren't planning to use.
the DR is only in hybrid or animal forms as are the physical stat boosts and the natural weapons/armor.
you are essentially paying 4 levels (if you go by the suggested CR/Level adjustment thingie- if I remember it correctly) for low light vision, scent, +2 wis and a -2 cha.**
I mean, I'm not against the flavor.. it sounds awesome. But you are paying a *lot* for that flavor, if you aren't ever planning to use the +5 str/+5 con, natural armor and attacks.
**The rules in the Bestiary say to treat you as a character level = to your CR, which for a Werebear is 4 though that's made less clear since the Lycanthrope in question is *also* a 4th level ranger- despite the Lycanthropy rules saying that it should be (animal CR+1) or (base form +1) whichever is higher- which means the Ranger Werebear should be a 4 (bear)+1 +4 (class levels) = 9.
So would a Werebear be CR 4? (as the Bestiary 2 says) or a CR5 (according to the Lycanthropy rules) or is a Ranger 4 Werebear a CR 4?
I have no idea.
-S
Selgard wrote: This isn't meant to be a criticism, just curiosity:
If you aren't wanting to change shape in battle, why bother with it?
Not that I mind the concept- but you are sucking up a pretty hefty level penalty for things you aren't planning to use.
the DR is only in hybrid or animal forms as are the physical stat boosts and the natural weapons/armor.
you are essentially paying 4 levels (if you go by the suggested CR/Level adjustment thingie- if I remember it correctly) for low light vision, scent, +2 wis and a -2 cha.**
I mean, I'm not against the flavor.. it sounds awesome. But you are paying a *lot* for that flavor, if you aren't ever planning to use the +5 str/+5 con, natural armor and attacks.
**The rules in the Bestiary say to treat you as a character level = to your CR, which for a Werebear is 4 though that's made less clear since the Lycanthrope in question is *also* a 4th level ranger- despite the Lycanthropy rules saying that it should be (animal CR+1) or (base form +1) whichever is higher- which means the Ranger Werebear should be a 4 (bear)+1 +4 (class levels) = 9.
So would a Werebear be CR 4? (as the Bestiary 2 says) or a CR5 (according to the Lycanthropy rules) or is a Ranger 4 Werebear a CR 4?
I have no idea.
-S
You bring up good points. It isn't that my character doesn't want to utilize his abilities, its that he finds it pragmatic to not until he gets to know his new compatriots better to avoid a potentially volatile situation. Also, I could imagine transforming in front of them for the first time in the final boss fight and making it that much more memorable (assuming the secret could be kept that long). That being said an entire adventure of holding yourself back is quite the price just to be able to call yourself a lycanthrope.
As for my ECL I would think it more suited to be somewhere around 1-2 base. Lycanthropes have no Hit Dice, low light vision and scent are both obtainable by standard races if desired, the bonus to ability scores become less and less significant as characters start getting to higher levels and acquiring equipment that give +6/+8 to ability scores. The same can be said for the natural armor bonus. The only truly significant advantage is the DR and it can be overcome easily if the DM mixes in some silver weapons every now and then (thats what I would do in their situation).
Cool idea, eat Ameiko's face off.
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3.5 Loyalist wrote: Cool idea, eat Ameiko's face off. ^ Full of Win!
Just play a ranger, barb, or urban Druid take options for the theme.
Anoze wrote: 3.5 Loyalist wrote: Cool idea, eat Ameiko's face off. ^ Full of Win! The Werebear's seduction went awry.
"I'm so sorry!"
Back on topic, werebear is a heavy cost, but you can make it work. I've had problems with a werewolf player that wanted to be an absolute juggernaut, like an elder garou in vampire, chap couldn't accept the weaknesses and balancing of being a lycanthrope. Good luck and good hunting. Werebears are the favourite of a friend of mine, I'm more into assweres http://www.headinjurytheater.com/article73.htm and werespiders from 2nd ed.
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