Character Advice: Monk feat path


Advice


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I am new to pathfinder and this is only my 2nd character. Looking for some advice on ensuring I have my feats mapped out properly. Seems like it is very, very easy to wrong with a monk. I do not intend to dip into another class.

The setting will be skulls and shackles with a low level start (under 4th, but TBD). I am looking at a Zen Archer / Qingong build with a Human. I haven't rolled stats yet but will prioritize WIS (+2) >STR >CON >DEX >INT >CHA.

(1) Toughness
Human: Crane Style - See Crane Wing, not sure I will go this route.
Monk 1st: Improved Unarmed Strike
Monk 1st: Perfect Strike (bow)
Monk 1st: Precise Shot
Monk 2nd: Weapon Focus (longbow)
Monk 2nd: Point Blank Shot
Monk 3rd: Point Blank Master
(3) Deadly Aim
(5) Crane Wing .... Maybe Defensive Combat Training is better?
Monk 6th: Specialisation (longbow)
Monk 6th: Improved Precise Shot
(7) Clustered Shots
(9) Vital Strike
Monk 10th: Improved Critical
(11) Touch of Serenity
(13) Stunning Fist
Monk 14: Pinpoint Targetting
(15) Improved Vital Strike
(17) Ability Focuse (stunning fist)
(19) Medusa's Wrath

Qingong subs
(4) Slow fall to Barkskin
(8) Wholeness of Body to Restoration
(17) Timeless Body to Shadowwalk

Still reading up the vows but cleanliness and truth seems good. Also looking to take the trait Honored Fist of the Society to increase ki pool size.

Kind of torn on the Defensive Combat Training as it would render Crane Style incomplete and free up a slot. Thoughts?

Also - I may be building towards things that dont work well with each other. Looking for advice on the build plan. Thank you.


I think that a Zen Archer will get more out of Deflect Arrows than out of the Crane Style feat-tree. If enemies close with you, it's already gone pear-shaped. Enemies will shoot at you, though, which you will want to avoid.


Quote:
Seems like it is very, very easy to wrong with a monk.

This isn't really true. Not anymore than any other class at least. Take what people say on the forums with about 50 tonnes of salt.

You can't really use crane style with a bow unless you plan on the cheesetacular letting go of the weapon after your turn.


Cheapy wrote:
Quote:
Seems like it is very, very easy to wrong with a monk.

This isn't really true. Not anymore than any other class at least. People on the forums tend to lose sight of how the average group plays and so greatly exaggerate things.

You can't really use crane style with a bow unless you plan on the cheesetacular letting go of the weapon after your turn.

I rationalized it with the fact that you only hold the bow with one hand, its the other hand that grabbing arrows and pulling the bowstring back. Since the feat says you only need one hand free, its not unreasonable to think that a bow user *could* have that hand free.

Either way, both comments have me leaning back towards Defensive Combat Training. I am just unsure the feat investiment here is the best option.


Cheapy wrote:
Quote:
Seems like it is very, very easy to wrong with a monk.
This isn't really true. Not anymore than any other class at least. Take what people say on the forums with about 50 tonnes of salt.

You're assuming that our OP is stating this based on posts on the boards and not on working things out for himself. It may alarm you to find out people can reach this conclusion from doing the latter, not the former.

That said, the Zen Archer is much, much easier to get right than the core monk.

Cheapy wrote:
You can't really use crane style with a bow unless you plan on the cheesetacular letting go of the weapon after your turn.

Actually that makes much more sense with an archer than a swordsman, and a Zen Archer can use Deflect Arrows which has the same requirement. However, I don't see the need if he keeps his enemies at range.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Don't worry about Defensive Combat Training; you get to add your Monk AC bonus (ie, Wisdom mod and the other boosts as you level) to your CMD.

You are forgetting that Crane Style requires Dodge as a prerequisite first. But Dodge also improves your CMD, so again, I think you'll be alright in that department.

Instead of going Crane, perhaps look into Serpent Style? It allows you to use a Sense Motive check as your AC or Touch AC for 1 ranged or melee attack as an immediate action; also makes your unarmed strikes deal piercing damage. Since you're pumping up your Wisdom, it could come in handy.

You can't get Medusa's Wrath as a bonus feat and will need it's prereqs to get it as a regular feat, but since you can't flurry with your unarmed strikes won't get the Stunning Fist enhancements, it's best to ignore it AND Stunning Fist.

PS: Look into the Guided weapon property to really pump out the damage. If the DM allows that, you can emphasize Dex over Str for better AC and reflex saves.


Black Powder Chocobo wrote:

You can't get Medusa's Wrath as a bonus feat and will need it's prereqs to get it as a regular feat, but since you can't flurry with your unarmed strikes won't get the Stunning Fist enhancements, it's best to ignore it AND Stunning Fist.

PS: Look into the Guided weapon propery to really pump out the damage. With that, you can emphasize Dex over Str for better AC and reflex saves.

Ki Focus Bow at 17 will open up ranged stunning fist.

I can't for the life of me remember how I got to Medusa's Wrath, but good catch. Seems I need to decide if stunning alone if worth working in or if I have a few more free feats to plan out (stunning and ability focus)

Guided - holy goodness. Thank you =)

Liberty's Edge

I am playing a Zen Archer in a campaign setting. Based on my experience (now 10th level):
1. You will be doing your best to avoid hand-to-hand combat. Skip style feats and concentrate on feats to improve your ranged attack.
2. You will frequently be the target of ranged attacks. Deflect Arrows will help you a lot.
3. I do not have Clustered Shots - sometimes I wish I did. On the other hand, you can get past a lot of DR with Weapon Blanche (silver, cold iron, adamantine) and a magic bow. You can even bypass DR/bludgeon with dull arrows. DR/slashing is another matter.
4. I like Improved Critical (level 10 bonus). Threatening on a 19 with x3 damage is great, since my bonus to damage is now +10.
5. Remember to use Perfect Strike and spend the Ki point to get the extra shot! I can add a whole bunch of damage with these two abilities.
6. Acquire an Efficient Quiver as soon as you can. Keeping 60 arrows handy is a great benefit. You can also keep a couple spare bows handy. Smart opponents will attempt to sunder your bow, reasoning that you are not much of a threat without it. Of course, they'll have to catch you first!
7. Deny Death is a good Qinggong substitution.
8. With your high wisdom, a one-level dip into Empyreal Sorcerer can be beneficial. You get access to a few good spells and magic devices that you would otherwise find unusable.
9. Deadly Aim is really good at higher levels. Remember that you need 13 DEX to get it. The To Hit/Damage tradeoff follows your Flurry "BAB" (4/4 progression), but you need to be second level to qualify for the feat in the first place.

EDIT
Can you put the "Guided" weapon property on a ranged weapon? The description sounds as if it applied only to melee weapons.


Bonus Feat

At 1st level, 2nd level, and every 4 levels thereafter, a monk may select a bonus feat. These feats must be taken from the following list:

Catch Off-Guard, Combat Reflexes, Deflect Arrows, Dodge, Improved Grapple, Scorpion Style, and Throw Anything.

At 6th level, the following feats are added to the list:

Gorgon’s Fist, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Trip, and Mobility.

At 10th level, the following feats are added to the list:

Improved Critical, Medusa’s Wrath, Snatch Arrows, and Spring Attack.

A monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them.

---------------

It was bothering me but it's HERE!. I knew I wasn't crazy ;)


If you don't know it already:

The Porpentine’s Guide to Zen Archery, especially the paragraph "Zen Architecture".

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

The Zen Archer's list of Bonus Feats replaces the standard Monk bonus feats. Thus, no Medusa's Wrath without pre-reqs.

Zen Archer bonus feats:

Bonus Feats

A zen archer’s bonus feats must be taken from the following list:

Combat Reflexes, Deflect Arrows, Dodge, Far Shot, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Rapid Shot.

At 6th level, the following feats are added to the list:

Focused Shot*, Improved Precise Shot, Manyshot, Mobility, and Parting Shot*.

At 10th level, the following feats are added to the list:

Improved Critical, Pinpoint Targeting, Shot on the Run, and Snatch Arrows.

A monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them.

These feats replace the monk’s normal bonus feats.

Which is fine; against Medusa's Wrath is a pointless feat for a Zen Archer.


Thank you Theconiel - Sounds like I am on the right track.


Black Powder Chocobo wrote:

The Zen Archer's list of Bonus Feats replaces the standard Monk bonus feats. Thus, no Medusa's Wrath without pre-reqs.

** spoiler omitted **

Which is fine; against Medusa's Wrath is a pointless feat for a Zen Archer.

Shoot - you are right. Thanks Chocobo, I wasnt seperating feat selection properly.

Liberty's Edge

There are some good magical enhancements for a bow:

Distance
Aura moderate divination; CL 6th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, clairaudience/clairvoyance; Price +1 bonus.
DESCRIPTION
This special ability can only be placed on a ranged weapon.
A distance weapon has double the range increment of other weapons of its kind.

Seeking
Aura strong divination; CL 12th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, true seeing; Price +1 bonus.
DESCRIPTION
This ability can only be placed on a ranged weapon.
The weapon veers toward its target, negating any miss chances that would otherwise apply, such as from concealment. The wielder still has to aim the weapon at the right square. Arrows mistakenly shot into an empty space, for example, do not veer and hit invisible enemies, even if they are nearby.


The best enhancement for any weapon is almost always another +1 to hit and damage.

Liberty's Edge

Dabbler wrote:
The best enhancement for any weapon is almost always another +1 to hit and damage.

This is true.

There are occasional exceptions, though. If you know that you will be facing one particular type of enemy (as when our party took on the task of clearing an area of undead), the Bane property is good. If your GM loves to throw enemies with Improved Invisibility at you, then Seeking is good.

But, as Dabbler says, the additional +1 is almost always best.


^ and ^^
That changes if you have a party member with Greater Magic Weapon (5th level for Wizards, 7th for Clerics, buy the appropriate Pearl of Power for them), as it stacks with special properties but not raw enchantment bonus (it doesn't help with bypassing DR though)

PF is a little lacking on solid weapon enchantments right now though, but Holy is still pretty good, as the vast majority of foes you fight are evil.

Anyways...

Zen Archer guide

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=crledn21teqvorvhkatuqjtn37& amp;topic=2858.0

ZAM is one of the few times human is questionable, as the stupid Monk BAB means you don't qualify for many archery feats at level 1 (just Noble Scion: Narikopolus I think) and they have the worst sight of all races. Dwarf is a nice option (boost your main stats, the boost to con does more than Toughness ever would, boost your saves)

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