| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Okay, I realize this has been asked before, but after searching through the forums, I still haven't found a definitive answer. Therefore, my question is as follows:
1) Does a weapon with the spell storing enhancement multiply the damage of the stored spell on a critical hit? (Be it a natural 20, or by using the weapon's critical threat range)
2) When using the stored spell, does the character have to make another attack roll in order to hit their target with said spell? (For example, when using shocking grasp in a spell stored weapon, does a character have to roll a separate attack for shocking grasp to see if it hits, or is it already assumed that the spell has hit the target based upon the success of the weapon having already hit the target)
Any help would be great appreciated.
1) Pretty sure it follows regular rules for spells. In other words, 20/x2
2) I don't think you need to roll another to hit roll.
My only concern with the whole 'can a spell crit when using the spell storing property' is that a player can basically choose to wait until they roll a natural 20.
For example, a Magus attacks an enemy and hits them on a natural 20 with his spell stored weapon. The magus purposely waits to confirm the crit before choosing to unleash the spell stored in his weapon. Once the crit is confirmed, the Magus unleashes his free action spell in the weapon, which is now automatically treated as x2.
Anyways, I suppose my next question is this: if the spell stored in the weapon CAN crit, is a player required to unleash the spell BEFORE the crit of their attack is confirmed, or can they simply choose to wait until AFTER they have confirmed the crit.
Spell Storing: A spell storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon. (The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action.) Anytime the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires. (This special ability is an exception to the general rule that casting a spell from an item takes at least as long as casting that spell normally.) Once the spell has been cast from the weapon, a spellcaster can cast any other targeted spell of up to 3rd level into it. The weapon magically imparts to the wielder the name of the spell currently stored within it.
Going by that, the magus can wait for a 20, but the weapon casts the spell. I'd say he has to declare the free action, then roll to confirm, based on the weapon crit result. If the weapon crits, the spell does crit damage, too, along with the weapon.
JMO.
2) When using the stored spell, does the character have to make another attack roll in order to hit their target with said spell? (For example, when using shocking grasp in a spell stored weapon, does a character have to roll a separate attack for shocking grasp to see if it hits, or is it already assumed that the spell has hit the target based upon the success of the weapon having already hit the target)
Spell Storing says the weapon casts the spell. It doesn't say anything about auto-hitting. The spell follows every normal rule except that it's cast as a free action.
So what ur suggesting is that after I attack with my weapon, hit with it, and use my free action to cast the spell (again, lets say shocking grasp) I need to also make a new attack roll and hit my opponents touch ac?
Spell Storing: A spell storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon. (The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action.) Anytime the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires. (This special ability is an exception to the general rule that casting a spell from an item takes at least as long as casting that spell normally.) Once the spell has been cast from the weapon, a spellcaster can cast any other targeted spell of up to 3rd level into it. The weapon magically imparts to the wielder the name of the spell currently stored within it.
I find the part in bold to be written in an ambiguous manner, and so would fall back on the intent of the action and probable intent of the writer. Meaning, before the magus or wielder of the weapon rolls to hit, they declare if they want the weapon to cast its stored spell. I believe this is how the writer meant for the act of desire to work. The rest of that sentence is describing the requirements for the weapon to cast the spell, mainly, for the creature to have sustained damage from it (any DR was bypassed/exceeded).
From a game balance perspective, I think that the requirement of the weapon needing to deal damage is to offset the wielder being able to cast spells with one stored.
Personally, I would have liked to have seen it where, once the desire is declared, roll the attack as normal. If the attack hits touch AC, the spell is cast, however, the weapon only deals damage (or bounces off of DR, etc.) if the actual AC is hit.
Always try to have an eye for what makes sense/is balanced/fun to play.
If we interpret the rules of spell storing that way (in that you must declare the use of stored spell BEFORE attack), what happens if the weapon misses? Is the stored spell simply discharged with no effect (which basically equates to a wasted spell)? Does it 'hold the charge' of the spell until a successful attack is made?
If we interpret the rules of spell storing that way (in that you must declare the use of stored spell BEFORE attack), what happens if the weapon misses? Is the stored spell simply discharged with no effect (which basically equates to a wasted spell)? Does it 'hold the charge' of the spell until a successful attack is made?
Yes, in my interpretation, I would see a missed attack as holding the charge, similar to a touch attack. (This is why I like the idea of the spell being additionally cast-able in that gray area AC between touch and normal. The effect doesn't describe this, but I'd want to try it and see how it plays. Potentially, storing a spell to be released this way could be very powerful, but the effect is limited to third level spells and lower, so I don't think it would be too bad.)
We rule it that the spell functions exactly as the spell describes, so, for example, a spell-stored Scorching Ray still needs to make a separate attack roll for each ray (against touch AC).
So. A three-ray Scorching Ray from a spell storing weapon can potentially have 4 critical hits (one from the weapon, one from each ray), but each is rolled separately.
I've always figured that since there was no roll to hit with the spell that just triggered, you can't crit with it either, regardless of whether or not you crit with the weapon attack.
I did that at one point with my magus PC - spellstrike crit with a vampiric touch, then triggered a second vampiric touch stored in my spell storing weapon.
Well, yes, I am wrong, but not for the reason you cite (and thanks for pointing that out, btw).
"... A single targeted spell" means "one targeted spell" not "a spell that only has one target".
The reason I'm wrong is that Scorching Ray doesn't have a target.
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"Anytime the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires."
If the spell is cast after the weapon deals damage as stated in the ability even as a free action and requires no attack roll IT CAN NOT CRIT. I use a spell storing weapon in this way in PFS. Your gm may rule other wise if he wishes, but imho that would be broken.
Seems the best solution a FAQ entry would be awesome though.
I suppose my next question is this then: if we agree that the stored spell cannot crit (due to the inability to make an attack roll with the spell itself), does this mean that the spell automatically hits the target after you unleash it as a free action?
Again, my interpretation has always been as follows:
1) The spell cannot crit, since its use is separate from the attack roll itself.
2) The spell is automatically assumed to 'hit the target' once it has been unleashed (basically stating that because the 'weapon' hit, the spell should also hit as well).
Again, I do welcome corrections, but I still hold that if I use a spell in this manner, it doesn't make sense to make another attack roll. Again, assuming we are using a spell like shocking grasp, does it not make sense to say that the weapon delivered the 'touch' via striking the enemy with the attack.
I mean, it doesn't make much sense to roll a 'separate' attack roll when spell stored weapon already casts the spell ON the target upon a successful hit.
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I suppose my next question is this then: if we agree that the stored spell cannot crit (due to the inability to make an attack roll with the spell itself), does this mean that the spell automatically hits the target after you unleash it as a free action?
Again, my interpretation has always been as follows:
1) The spell cannot crit, since its use is separate from the attack roll itself.
2) The spell is automatically assumed to 'hit the target' once it has been unleashed (basically stating that because the 'weapon' hit, the spell should also hit as well).
Again, I do welcome corrections, but I still hold that if I use a spell in this manner, it doesn't make sense to make another attack roll. Again, assuming we are using a spell like shocking grasp, does it not make sense to say that the weapon delivered the 'touch' via striking the enemy with the attack.
I mean, it doesn't make much sense to roll a 'separate' attack roll when spell stored weapon already casts the spell ON the target upon a successful hit.
Yup, pretty much how I read it:
The spell can't crit for various reasons, even if the attack delivering it is a critical hit.
The weapon casts the spell - not the user - metamagic rods and spell strike are not an option.
There is no attack roll for the spell from the weapon only a save and SR.
However one question is not really clear )I hope its works, but its soooo cheasy):
Spell storing can only be applied to melee weapons, so if you craft 15 +1 spell storing daggers and fill them with about 10-20d6 worth of damage...
Can you fling them all on an enemy with telekinesis and activate the spell storing.
I am actually not that certain, that I want this tactic to work.
Magic Missile.
My point is that the spell doesn't actually have to only affect a single creature - spell storing merely requires that it be a targeted spell. When a spell storing weapon discharges, the spell goes off, affecting only that creature.
So, for magic missile, it forces all the missiles to hit that one target. Your argument would invalidate Magic Missile, since it is not a "single target" spell. I contend that it is a valid choice.
