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I have seen numerous people posting all over trying to get into a game and I thought I could help shoulder the burden, as it were.
But I'm not sure I'm cut out for it.
I need advice. What are some qualities that are required for a good PbP DM? I already asked a similar question here connected to tabletop DMing, but was wondering if there was a specific set of needs or qualities that made a good (or at least tolerable) DM. What is looked for in a PbP DM that makes you post a character to their game?
Possibly better: What is looked for and avoided?
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After giving this a go (twice) and failing, let me tell you what you'll need most of all:
PATIENCE.
Players will post once a day, once a week, maybe even less, but will insist that they have direct control over their characters and the game. That means even a simple encounter, with straight forward PC actions can take more than a week, and one adventure can take a year.
It's like gaming with Treants.
On valium.
Also, despite the ridiculous time investment, players will drop out, and most games go dead pretty quickly. The boards are littered with the PbP dead.
Now, obviously this doesn't work for me, but there is a thriving community that simply loves the format, and I expect someone to jump in soon (assuming I haven't already been ninja'd) and tell you how to get started. But really? My recommendation to you is to PLAY a PbP, at least for a while, before jumping into the deep end.
PBP is a different game from pencil+paper. It has its strenghts: making it easier to split the party or provide individual details and side quests without bogging down the rest of the group, providing plenty of time to come up with the perfect well-written post rather than having to come up with something off-the-cuff, and giving you access to hundreds of gamers and games from anywhere you can scrounge up an internet connection.
...but it also has its challenges: drastically differences in pacing in narrative, slower story progression, and players dropping out.
Round-by-round tactical combat doesn't work well if you try to bring your normal tabletop process to the forums. What I've taken to doing is working with block-style initiative, where I post the setup of the encounter and roll initiative for everyone then solicity their actions. Players all declare their actions in as much detail and with as many if/then stipulations as they like; once everyone has posted I write up the results of the round and the process repeats. Before I moved to this system I had a single, straightforward combat take a month for a 5-person party...
I have seen numerous people posting all over trying to get into a game and I thought I could help shoulder the burden, as it were.
But I'm not sure I'm cut out for it.
I need advice. What are some qualities that are required for a good PbP DM?
The number one qualities in a PbP GM, in my opinion, are determination and/or a thick skin.
Determination, in the sense that you are in it for the long haul.
Thick skin, in the sense that you won't take it personally when some players drop out or lose interest (and they will).
If you have both of those, then you can run a game that will last for years, in my experience.
EDIT -- I'll also add Uriel's suggestion of patience, but with a caveat: don't be so patient that you let the game grind to a halt. A good GM knows when to push the action forward a bit.
On the subject of determination, don't be hesitant to prompt players for posts or send PMs if a few days go by with no activity. It helps to have a policy written out in your recruitment thread, like that the GM will post on behalf of a PC if they don't post after 48 hours.
One thing I've found that surprised me is the amount of time I spend on it. For a RL campaign I would typically spend the last few evenings before the once-per-week or once-per-two-weeks game to prepare for the session, and have all other days off, so to speak.
But I never have any days off when DM'ing a PBP game :)
(not that I'm complaining; it's just different and something I didn't expect)
However, PBP games are vastly superior to RL games when it comes to roleplaying, both between two (or more) PCs and between PCs and NPCs. This also typically leads to the characters being more fleshed out personality-wise.
Since you can always go back to check out what was actually said in that conversation you half-remember from two months ago, or what the helpful NPC's name was, continuity is also easier in a PBP game. At least for me.
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I must be one of the lucky ones: I'm playing in two BB PbP campaigns, and both are going quite well.
Compared to tabletop games, they are indeed very slow.
However, I'm an old 1E guy and I need to learn the PFR rules and Golarian setting.
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But .... this slow pace is an advantage for the GM since he/she will need to provide ample detail (maps, NPC personalities, plot).
I think the most important thing is honesty:
- During recruitement, be up-front about how often you can post.
- If you're already playing and need down-time, let the GM and other players know in advance.
- If you get mad at a fellow player, let him/her know it and work it out.
- Take Paizo's advice: Don't be a jerk. This is a game; it's meant to be fun.
Thanks,
Keith
I will second the recommendation to play in a PbP (or three) first before DMing one -- and maybe even follow a PbP (or three) as a spectator before playing in one. (An RSS client, such as FeedDemon, can be handy for following games that you aren't in.) You'll answer a lot of your own questions that way.. including some that you don't even have yet. ;)
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Thank you, so much, for all the replies!
I am following a couple that I found interesting now and rolling up a character to see if I can interest anyone in her (Gnome oracle XD). I've been involved in this kind of RP before many years ago and I think I still have a knack for it. At least I found that I'm not Completely inexperienced, just a fish out of water.
If not for youall I would have jumped into this and probably failed miserably. Thanks again :)
By all means, if anyone has more to add, go for it. I need all the advice I can get.
Well, you shouldn't feel forced to play in a PBP before DM'ing one. My first (and so far only) PBP experience is as the DM of campaign that I took over from its previous DM about a year and a half ago, and that campaign is still going strong despite my total inexperience with regards to the PBP format :)
I think PBP is an area where PF rules can shine cause you can take your time reading the rules before posting! So even if they are complex you still get to do a correct post. My advice is if you don't want to play in one yet read one!
That way u will get a felling about the format and if you don't get something just ask!
Also I highly recommend you to choose a paizo's adventure path or module cause it takes a lot of the GM work from you. PFS scenarios are very short and one can be completed in around 3 months each so it is a good way to host a short PBP game.
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In general, what I would look for and avoid are:
Avoid having too many players. PbP's are slower, in both progression and time. Especially in combat like situations, where people need to wait their turn for something, the more players there are, the longer people might need to wait, which can make people burn out of the game.
Avoid using a lot of big maps, a lot of individual NPC's, or a lot of special terrain or the like, as once again, PbP's tend to take a lot longer, and these things are either very easy to forget or will bog down the game.
Things I do -
I establish up front what I expect from players, tending to be how often they are expected to post/check the game thead, (at least 1/day, 1 per 2 days, or whatever), what is not allowed, what is, what I might allow within reason, etc. . .
Inform them what, if any, house rules or alternate systems are being used, what tye of playstyle I plan on using, what sort of sites or programs I might use, (some people have trouble accessing Google Docs, for instance for maps), and tend to ask what sorts of things they would like or if they have anything specific that they want to avoid, (sex, child/animal abuse, spiders, religion & politics, whatever), for real world reasons, out of game.
Make it manditory to have a character sheet for your character (if on these boards) that the player posts with (using the PFS Player resource Character or Alias). In addition to that, instead of the Race and Class section, I have them put basic combat stats, so that they appear at the fron to each post. (I'll give an example after this post with one of my characters).
I strongly urge players t use a certain format for dialogue. Bold is for thing their character is actually saying. Italics is either things they are thinking, inner dialogue, or to draw special attention to something in their appearance or the like. is specifically for Out of Character comments, but can be included at the end of, or even in the middle of an "In Character" post.
Any time I have a map, or something I refere back to a lot (like an Initiative count), I post that as a Spoiler every few posts, and also I try to post it at the top of each page, if I can. This just makes it a lot easier for people to check back for a link, to see who is next, or whatever.
I also requie, during combat, that each person put Roud: ____, Init ____, in both bold and Bigger at the very top of their post.
I aso ask that each player, do something so that if they are not responding and we need to move along, we can post for them somehow. This could be a few different things, according to their preference. It might be that the DM simply posts for them, (with the understanding that they will not use any expendible resources (wands charges, scrolls, high level spells) UNLESS it is absolutely needed at the time. It could be that they designate another character to play them. Most often, and what I prefere, is that before we start, they simply designate a certain style of action that they will do if they do not post after a full day. This could be "I ready an action to heal if someone is severely hurt", "I attempt to Aid Another", "I move to flank", "I attemt to full attack", "I go full defensive", etc. . ., within reason.
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Something else I try to do and have players do is to link an uncommon spell to the SRD or some other source we can quickly read.
I tend to prefere that people make a roll, post it, then edit their post and base their other flavor and responces on how the actual roll turns out.
Side note, the Paizo Dice roller is terrible. I have seen an entire 5 man group all roll a Nat in, in a row, and I have nevr seen so many very low numbers in my life. It loves "rolling" 1-5. Loves it.
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If you click on that character's name, it will take you to the character sheet, which allows the DM to easily take a look at anything they want to at any time. For whatever reason, my stats are not showing up next to the name, where it says how long ago I posted. But if, yout go to this link HERE, you will see that they do for each post, making it much easier for a DM to take a quick look and continue combat fast.
I had just found the pbp section a couple of weeks ago because so sick. I am one that has lots of time to browse the boards. Means I can check regularly in the evening or every couple of hours most of the other times.
I have gotten into one that the DM seems to be the slow on as there is a lot of roleplaying happening. There are slow times but suddenly with have everyone post 2 or 3 times in a couple of hours. Might be more if DM interacted more but that is the thing. Every one seems to be different on frequency.
I am in one that I submitted a character and did not expect to be chosen as I just wanted to make the character. It seems to have daily multiple posts by everyone including DM. Another one I am in a competition to get chosen and it is almost a week now with me just sitting.
I keep trying and hoping to play more but have learned lots seem to lose players and DMs. I know I don't have the ability to DM. Good luck with whatever you decide to do. Just remember to add in when you start what type of frequency you expect from players. Seems like some only have 5 or 10 minutes a week to post and others (was funny to read about it) have enough time to almost write a book before others post.
As a PbP DM you should be prepared and able to post more frequently then you expect your players to. If you can answer basic questions that one player has asked, but everyone in the group might want to know before they take actions, it will help keep the game moving along if the answer is already there when they come online to post.
Is there a certain procedure to go through to join a pbp as a player?
I'm in front of a computer pretty much all day every day and would love to play some PF while at work.
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You need to be proficient and efficient with the technologies you'll be using to run the game. Uploading and updating maps, using the formatting tags for the forums, maintaining a listing of world lore and house rules, and even finding a way to automate repetitive tasks (such as 1000s of die rolls) are all essential. If you aren't able to become good at using your tools (and yes, you'll learn a lot by doing), then you'll become frustrated and burn out.
Here are a few posts that might be helpful to you...
Is there a certain procedure to go through to join a pbp as a player?
If the DM/GM wants one or more new players, they'll typically post a thread in the "Recruitment" forum, specifying what they're looking for and what the character building rules are.
That's also usually how recruitment for a new game starts.
***
(Exceptions exist, of course; typically in cases where the player(s) joining are friends of the DM/GM or one of the existing players. Such recruitments might happen purely via private messages or real-life conversations.)
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I'm starting up a PFS PbP, and also looking to include a few other GM's, if you are interested in an official play. If not, feel free to PM me with any question or if you just need help.
Thanks, but from the feedback here I think I should at least have a game or two's worth of experience with the format before I dive into the DM thing. I will probably take you up on the offer to PM with questions, though. You have been warned. :P
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You need to be proficient and efficient with the technologies you'll be using to run the game. Uploading and updating maps, using the formatting tags for the forums, maintaining a listing of world lore and house rules, and even finding a way to automate repetitive tasks (such as 1000s of die rolls) are all essential. If you aren't able to become good at using your tools (and yes, you'll learn a lot by doing), then you'll become frustrated and burn out.
Here are a few posts that might be helpful to you...
What a spectacular list of resources. Thanks a ton, Laithoron!
What a spectacular list of resources. Thanks a ton, Laithoron!
Happy to help. FWIW, I keep links to a lot of these in my forum profile and wishlists in case they might prove useful to others.
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Read Laithoron's profile - all of it :).
One other thing I'm doing in the PbP I'm running to help pacing is I have the players pre-roll all kinds of things.
One init roll before we ever get anywhere near combat.
Multiple perception rolls, knowledge rolls, spellcraft, etc.
I keep all of this information in a spreadsheet.
So when something comes up that requires one of those rolls I don't need to pause the game and wait for the player to roll it (granted I could just roll those things myself when it was needed, but when I'm a player I like to roll my own dice, so I prefer to let my players do that also as much as possible).
Examples:
In your descriptive text you'd have something like
Several hunched over humanoids in studded leather, but with fur covering their bodies approach threateningly. Their faces are rat-like, and they have long, naked tails.
Or:
The enemy mage chants the words to a spell, a ray of darkness springs from his pointing finger to strike X in the chest.
Then periodically I'll tell my players, I need 4 more perception checks, or 2 more knowledge (nature) checks from you, or whatever.
I do not have them pre-roll attacks or damage, or anything that they can plainly do at the time they are posting an action.
e.g, player says he is searching the room, they should post a perception roll as part of their action.
player says they are climbing a rope, they should post a climb skill check with that action.