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My guess is never.
High level AP's won't sell. Pure and simple. Seeing as how the folks at Paizo have said many many times that their biggest product is the AP line they would be mad to mess with a successful formula.
Also Jade Regent is not a sequel to Rise of the Runelords. The only thing the two campaigns have in common is that they start in the same place and share two NPC's. That's all.
Jade Regent is a sequel to Rise of the Runelords in the same way that The Dark Knight is a sequel to Batman Returns. Same characters, set in the same place but totally different.
Maybe just a 'beyond X AP' module/book expanding on various mod 6 ideas...KM has lots of good possibilities for example
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Jade Regent is a sequel to Rise of the Runelords in the same way that The Dark Knight is a sequel to Batman Returns. Same characters, set in the same place but totally different.
Actually, it's more like a sequel in the same way that Thor is sort of a sequel to Iron Man, in that there are some characters that carry over between the two movies but with the movies themselves being VERY different stories.
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Jade Regent is a sequel to Rise of the Runelords in the same way that The Dark Knight is a sequel to Batman Returns. Same characters, set in the same place but totally different.Actually, it's more like a sequel in the same way that Thor is sort of a sequel to Iron Man, in that there are some characters that carry over between the two movies but with the movies themselves being VERY different stories.
So when are we going to get The Avengers?
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What would a high-level AP be exactly? The Shattered Star covers play through 17th level and that seems pretty high to me. While it would be neat to see a level 18-20 module, writing a cohesive adventure that doesn't resort to contrivances for PCs that have easy access to miracle and wish spells is a pretty tall order.
I think the OP meant an AP which started higher than level one. There are periodically requests for this kind of thing, but I think the answer is pretty close to "never" (though the Paizo crowd dont like to definitively rule stuff out).
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I think the OP meant an AP which started higher than level one. There are periodically requests for this kind of thing, but I think the answer is pretty close to "never" (though the Paizo crowd dont like to definitively rule stuff out).
As is it is pretty easy to start at a higher level in some of the pre-existing APs just by beginning at module 3 or 4 of 6.
From there you could continue on with the story with very minimal changes.
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Jade Regent is a sequel to Rise of the Runelords in the same way that The Dark Knight is a sequel to Batman Returns. Same characters, set in the same place but totally different.Actually, it's more like a sequel in the same way that Thor is sort of a sequel to Iron Man, in that there are some characters that carry over between the two movies but with the movies themselves being VERY different stories.
Yeah that's a better analogy.
Im sure an AP that covered level 6-20 would sell
In this way the NPCS in the first mod are 'hiring' etc rather competent characters rather than noobs, + the AP can therefore feel 'epic' from the start....with dragon, demon, etc being a threat from the off
The starting danger needs a pretty powerful party to deal with it....
I'm not sure if 6-20 is feasible in the space they have to work with. It takes a lot more work to and space to do high-level stat blocks so you're probably looking at 8-20. Otherwise your point is still the same.
A larger issue is the fact that the AP can't account for the players prior to level 8 (or 6 or 10). There needs to be a starting point and the AP would have to assume too much about the party and their long-term goals. To make it work, the AP would need to be more modular in its themes and goals and at that point why not just make it a module or a small series of connected modules.
I can't recall for certain where or who but I remember someone - James Jacobs's question thread maybe? - saying that the lack of mythic/epic rules is one of the reasons the APs stop where they do. There's always the chance the game will bleed beyond the "recommended" levels, that the PCs will need to be stronger than estimated to win (due to poor party synergy, poor optimization, or other factors), or simply that the GM hands out more experience (due to excess encounters, RP bonuses, or other factors) that push them beyond the limits of the game as currently written, so they always leave a "buffer zone" of two or three levels above the estimated level limit of the game.
It's likely not the ONLY reason, but it's A reason, and not really a bad one.
Really, when are we going to see a high level adventure path?
Have you taken a look at Slumbering Tsar?
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^ Also this. Until Paizo produces (more) level 12-20 content, Frog God has you covered with the Slumbering Tsar Saga.
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My guess is never.
High level AP's won't sell. Pure and simple. Seeing as how the folks at Paizo have said many many times that their biggest product is the AP line they would be mad to mess with a successful formula.
Also Jade Regent is not a sequel to Rise of the Runelords. The only thing the two campaigns have in common is that they start in the same place and share two NPC's. That's all.
Jade Regent is a sequel to Rise of the Runelords in the same way that The Dark Knight is a sequel to Batman Returns. Same characters, set in the same place but totally different.
"Batman BEGINS" :)
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Creative Director
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So when are we going to get The Avengers?Jade Regent is a sequel to Rise of the Runelords in the same way that The Dark Knight is a sequel to Batman Returns. Same characters, set in the same place but totally different.Actually, it's more like a sequel in the same way that Thor is sort of a sequel to Iron Man, in that there are some characters that carry over between the two movies but with the movies themselves being VERY different stories.
That might be Shattered Star. Might not. We'll see.
^ Also this. Until Paizo produces (more) level 12-20 content, Frog God has you covered with the Slumbering Tsar Saga.
Maybe, maybe not. Some people like sandbox adventures and some don't. I don't know what category the original poster falls into.
Im sure an AP that covered level 6-20 would sellI'm not. And perhaps more importantly, management at Paizo is not.
darn, quite enjoying running the 15th level combats, which last only 1 round, in KM 6.
Guess it does get kinda hard trying to find stuff for 18th level characters to do!!
^ Also this. Until Paizo produces (more) level 12-20 content, Frog God has you covered with the Slumbering Tsar Saga.Maybe, maybe not. Some people like sandbox adventures and some don't. I don't know what category the original poster falls into.
Fair enough. This brings up another point when it comes to high levels - it can be very tough to write a linear plot for PCs of level 15+. Sandbox seems to be one of the only viable ways to get these sorts of adventures into print. Sure, you can do linear at really high levels in isolation (see Witchwar Legacy) but, again, that's a module thing and not an AP thing.
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The evil AP is being filled by 3rd party publishers. I have no doubts that higher level play will also be supported by them if there is a demand and Paizo doesn't meet it.
I wouldn't mind a high level AP, but my experience is that many players and most DM's have trouble with D&D/PF games, once you get past level 9.
Orthos has it. It's a lack of epic rules for the system, and the fact that combat and balance starts to break down at the higher levels.
Our group played Age of Worms through to 20th with 7 players. A combination of so much the characters could do, exacerbated by the number of players and their many cohorts, then add on the number of bad guys needed to challenge us and a single smaller combat could take up an ENTIRE gaming session. I'm talking 8hrs minimum. It was pretty ridiculous.
We've since instilled rules to mitigate a lot of these issues, but the moral of the story is that the rules begin to break down at those higher levels, and couple that with no epic rules and you can't make a BBEG strong enough to challenge the party.
And maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I feel like Epic should be just that....Epic. It's not something any schmoe off the street can attain. The actual # of epic-level creatures/npcs/etc should be extremely rare/low compared to the rest of the world. The great wizard Mordenkainen should be as awesome and rare as the Runelords. And just as hard to locate. There shouldn't be a whole adventuring party equivalent worth in one city.
Im sure an AP that covered level 6-20 would sellI'm not. And perhaps more importantly, management at Paizo is not.
Not even the Demon Blight Crusade AP??
horrid name btw
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My guess is never.
High level AP's won't sell. Pure and simple. Seeing as how the folks at Paizo have said many many times that their biggest product is the AP line they would be mad to mess with a successful formula.
Also Jade Regent is not a sequel to Rise of the Runelords. The only thing the two campaigns have in common is that they start in the same place and share two NPC's. That's all.
Jade Regent is a sequel to Rise of the Runelords in the same way that The Dark Knight is a sequel to Batman Returns. Same characters, set in the same place but totally different.
"Batman BEGINS" :)
Ahem...
No I meant what I said. I was trying to point out the difference in styles between the first series of Batman movies and the second. That's the point I was trying to make, that whilst the two movies have the same characters they are totally different stories.
Maybe my point was too subtle? James had a better analogy anyway.
Im sure an AP that covered level 6-20 would sellI'm not. And perhaps more importantly, management at Paizo is not.Not even the Demon Blight Crusade AP??
horrid name btw
I don't see why the Worldwound AP would be different than any other AP. Granted, it will be using Mythic rules so groups will "power-up" much quicker but they'll still start at Level 1.
I do agree the name could use some work. Someone please tell me the title is a work in progress.
Maybe my point was too subtle?
FWIW, I understood it.
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That might be Shattered Star. Might not. We'll see.So when are we going to get The Avengers?Jade Regent is a sequel to Rise of the Runelords in the same way that The Dark Knight is a sequel to Batman Returns. Same characters, set in the same place but totally different.Actually, it's more like a sequel in the same way that Thor is sort of a sequel to Iron Man, in that there are some characters that carry over between the two movies but with the movies themselves being VERY different stories.
Too late, it's starting at level 1...