Does it seem to anybody else that there is a serious gap in the video game RPG market? It seems that you either get single player games, or MMOs, with no middle ground. There are a few exceptions, usually action RPGs, and the Infinity Engine Games and Neverwinter Nights.
Given that the origins of the computerized RPG are on the tabletop, why is it so hard for game publishers to allow for deep, enriching stories that can include multiple players?
Network issues? If not that, balance, or some other obscure thing. I'm not sure, I see a lot of companies focus more on FPSes due to the wide success of Battlefield 3 and Call of Duty (even though I'm sick of those games.)
On top of
There are a couple of Co-Op games coming out, notably Borderlands 2 and Torchlight 2.
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My question is why do developers suddenly think that Split-screen co-op is a bad thing. Yes I know they want tos ell more copies but for some of us we only have one system to play on and let me tell you my wife wants equal time. I mean i can remember me and my buddies crowding around a 22" TV to play golden eye or the old gauntlet games for hours.
I play RPGs to relax. I prefer to do this alone. I play for long stretches, immersed in the game with the agonising horror of reality held at bay for a while.
I would rather not deal with the presence of another human during this.
Part of it is the focus on the what experience is being provided.
Games fall into two broad categories. A) they provide scripted experiences dreamed up by the creators or B) they provide tools for you to make your own experiences.
RPG's tend to fall in the first category. The most memorable multi-player games tend to provide the second category.
There are some exceptions, like say Skyrim, most of the most memorable experiences in the game are player created, either something unusual happens in the game, or the player makes something happen. It wasn't the dialogue (excluding the meme's that came out of the game) or story line that made memories.
Borderlands was a lot of fun because you didn't have to play the entire game with someone, you could play by yourself, go into someone else's game, go back to yours, etc. It involved a lot of scripted experiences, with the boss fights and quests, but there was some room for player created experiences as well, but it was fairly limited.
My question is why do developers suddenly think that Split-screen co-op is a bad thing.
Split screen sucks. Each player's screen is too small and it becomes annoying to look at after abit, especially when you need to do things fast in-game.
Tried this with Gears of War for about an hour before I decided to play single player. Full screen over the internet is the way to go.
They are called MMORPGS, you know. If you want to adventure with _Mast4hK1ll4H_143_ and 1eetBlud69!!!!11!, you really can't go wrong with playing WoW. And because of these charming existences in the MMORPG setting, many RPG players nowadays prefer solitude in their gaming experience.
Or, you know, you could notice that he mentioned MMOs as something beyond what he wants. He's looking more at the middle ground along the lines of something like NWN.
Indeed. However, these two concepts fill the same commercial niche, and thus, MMOs are what will exist due to superior revenues.
Given that the origins of the computerized RPG are on the tabletop, why is it so hard for game publishers to allow for deep, enriching stories that can include multiple players?
Because deep, enriching stories don't sell copies.
People want archetypal characters that follow established archetypal stories.
Do you know what one of the biggest complaints in gaming is? Cut scenes and dialogue that you can't skip. While that sounds benign, think about this.
This means that the masses of people buying these games don't really care about the story. They're mashing a key to try and skip the stuff the minute it comes across the screen. I have friends who have beat mass effect and don't know the story, as they skipped as much as they could to get back to the combat. I'd even be willing to bet that my best friend can't name a character in Mass Effect despite that he beat it.
The unfortunate reality is that we, the roleplayers, are not catered to because we're so few.
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And as much as I hate to pull the overused card, I do think much of video games' rise out of the dregs of "just for nerds" and into "acceptable popular entertainment medium" is to blame for this. The change of the market has put a new focus on the video-game industry, and people of this sort are sadly not among the majority anymore but rather a niche interest.
I think it's one of the reasons that I consistently point people asking for game recommendations from me back to older games, specifically SNES/PS1 era stuff most of the time. Heck, I'm listening to the outdated 16-bit melodies of Chrono Trigger music as I write this.
It's an overused card for a reason.
Things often become popular by becoming more bland so as to be more palatable to a larger number of people.
Sometimes you have a situation where an entire industry shifts toward a popular style, but more often then not you have bands/movies/authors/developers shifting toward the popular style, which is usually a bland version of something that used to be unique.
Rarely does something become very popular while maintaining its own "soul" or "feel".
Minecraft is a good example. Instead of going toward the industry, Minecraft actually caused the industry to shift toward it. It maintains it's vision while still being popular.
Nirvana would be a good musical example, as after them grunge got huge and the whole mainstream shifted toward a more rock oriented sound for years.
But, unfortunately, most games instead follow the leaders and become blander and blander versions.
BF2, CoD4, old MoH... these were good games. Great games, and then the industry shifted toward them, AND they shifted toward the industry to create what we now have with this ubiquitous cloud of military shooters that aren't really great, but they're all okay.
In many ways, Bioware has defined the western RPG of today. This isn't to say that their games are the best ones, but they've become the powerful high selling franchises and so they're dictating RPGs to a certain degree and they've totally thrown co-op out the window in favour of SP experiences.
But there's hope: Kickstarter.
I honestly believe it spells the end of the closed gaming industry and we're now going to see an explosion of new games with classic ideals such as co-op, complexity, sandboxes etc.
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Ok I KNOW you said outside of MMOS but if you HAVEN'T tried it yet, I'm going to make a recommendation.
Buy star wars the old republic and have someone you want to play with buy it too. JUST play for the free month (its all you'll likely need anyway) and run through the story/quests together. For all my complaints with that game, playing it until the story is over is NOT one of them. Its usually pretty fun and engaging but MORE so with a friend from start to finish.
OR, as has been mentioned, go play NWN. Bad ish graphics compared to now? Sure. STILL a good game though.
But outside of that I agree with you. I'd like more Baldurs Gate Dark Alliance games of Champion of Norraths. I HATE split screen but I don't mind sharing one.
Skyrim should do something similiar to fable 2. Allow someone to viit your world and then leave when you want them too. They would be treated as an extra follower but their actions could have consequences (attacking a chicken). Put constraints on them so that they couldnt leave the local area map but could move around the local map (attack the top level of a castle while you tackled the bottom). They also couldnt take any unique items but could get experience and upgrade equipment. I'm sure the modding community has done this?
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I cant tell you how much fun I would have if I could have played Mass Effect or Skyrim with my friends online. I mean the actual games too not some co-op battle arena. Hell I miss the old hack 'n' slash Champions of Norrath which had a server for multi-player. Either way I completely agree there is a huge hole in the market for gamers like us.
Thought I'd share this: Project Aedra may at least make Morrowind into a multiplayer game one day.
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I cant tell you how much fun I would have if I could have played Mass Effect or Skyrim with my friends online. I mean the actual games too not some co-op battle arena. Hell I miss the old hack 'n' slash Champions of Norrath which had a server for multi-player. Either way I completely agree there is a huge hole in the market for gamers like us.
Yeah, I really enjoyed the horde mode coop in Mass Effect 3 and coop in Borderlands. There does seem to be a decent market for coop. Co-optimus ( http://www.co-optimus.com/ ) specializes in coop games. As far as games go, Borderlands 2 is on its way out as well as Torchlight 2. If you can get past the graphics, my buddies and I have had a really good time in a Dungeon defenders.
Bookmarking that page, thank you!
When Dragon Age was first introduced, there was a little talk of it having multiplayer capability and possibly a NWN-ish toolset. If that was ever a thing, it was apparently discarded quickly; I have the game, but I've yet to play it, as the potential for multiplayer as a replacement for NWN was the main allure it had for me.
Given that I was up until nearly 2 AM last night playing NWN on a DM-led quest, I'd say that I agree with Misery that it still kicks just fine despite its age.
I think the reason there aren't more coop RPGs is story. Story is easy to write when it's for one player, but when you have an unknown number of players the story loses its engrossing quality. It starts to feel generic like most MMO content. Trust me I have searched like crazy for good coop games.
VS games get old as soon as one of you gets significantly better at the game than the other. But a good coop is always fun. A pity they prioritize flashy graphics these days over playability as this might also be a reason they avoid coop. My old MCGA copy of Risk still runs on my newer machine and although the graphics are so outdated it still has far superior playability in single or multi-player due to well developed AI that the newer games don't bother with.
I believe the new Divinity game is going to be a co-op RPG that even has co-op dialogue sequences.
If it's not the new Divinity game, it is a new game coming out within the next year.
I'm pretty sure it's the new Divinity game though.
Why don't you try the DayZ Mods for Arma 2? They are free even.
Just connect to a server and you will be in a co-operative zombie holocaust.
You will also find out that other players will shoot and rob you.
Maybe that's why you don't see a lot of co-op RPGs?
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Why don't you try the DayZ Mods for Arma 2? They are free even.
Just connect to a server and you will be in a co-operative zombie holocaust.
You will also find out that other players will shoot and rob you.
Maybe that's why you don't see a lot of co-op RPGs?
That sounds a little more MMO than what I think we are talking about here. I was talking about just a few players in a closed world playing together.