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This is the exact wording of Wind Wall.
An invisible vertical curtain of wind appears. It is 2 feet thick and
of considerable strength. It is a roaring blast sufficient to blow
away any bird smaller than an eagle, or tear papers and similar
materials from unsuspecting hands. (A Reflex save allows a
creature to maintain its grasp on an object.) Tiny and Small flying
creatures cannot pass through the barrier. Loose materials and
cloth garments fly upward when caught in a wind wall. Arrows
and bolts are deflected upward and miss, while any other normal
ranged weapon passing through the wall has a 30% miss chance. (A
giant-thrown boulder, a siege engine projectile, and other massive
ranged weapons are not affected.) Gases, most gaseous breath
weapons, and creatures in gaseous form cannot pass through the
wall (although it is no barrier to incorporeal creatures).
While the wall must be vertical, you can shape it in any
continuous path along the ground that you like. It is possible to
create cylindrical or square wind walls to enclose specific points.
My question is in the title, hopefully so insight from others will help me understand this a little better.
Does Wind Wall stop firearm projectiles?
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while any other normal ranged weapon passing through the wall has a 30% miss chance.
that be the line that has your answer ;)
Since it was written before firearms, it's hard to determine specific intent. However, I'd probably run that firearms were under the 30% miss chance since that was more of a catch all phrase in the spell. I could easily see arguments treating a bullet as an arrow or bolt though.
I noticed this line, what defines "normal"?
Normal to me would be any non-magical
Is it though?
Is it though?
Yeah. Abnormal would be something like a giant chucked boulder or a halfling being thrown at your head.
Is it though?Yeah. Abnormal would be something like a giant chucked boulder or a halfling being thrown at your head.
Not related. If I were the GM and someone threw a halfling at someones windwall.....well up we go!
"Does Wind Wall stop firearm projectiles?"
No, but it does cause them to miss.
;P
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Arrows and bolts automatically miss. Other normal ranged weapons have the miss chance.
WARNING: Application of Real-World Physics to a Game Rules Question:
In my opinion, the other "normal" ranged weapons refers to thrown weapons such as hand axes or thrown daggers - presumably their additional weight makes them have a miss chance rather than auto-missing.
A firearm projectile may logically fall into this latter category as well, since it travels fast enough that the wind wouldn't automatically fling it away. I suggest thinking of it as, "Does the item in question rely primarily on aerodynamics to float through the air, or on weight and throw weight to send it?" (Or more simply, if I hold this item in the air and then drop it, will air resistance slow it down or change its path to the ground.)
A paper airplane, an arrow with its fletchings, or a bird with wings, all rely on air to support them. A thrown handaxe or a bullet relies more on initial thrust speed and its weight, so just gets the miss chance.
if wind doesn't dramatically effect bullets then snipers wouldn't worry about wind direction and speed ;)
and that's accounting for a gentle breeze ;)
NO PHYSICS YOU CAN'T COMPARE PHYSICS TO MAGIC!!!!
I believe at this point that the projectile would just incur the 30% penalty and nothing more. Thank you everyone for clearing this spell up for me. Truly gentlemen and scholars....and I am a liar. Muhahahahahahahahahahahaha
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Not to get physics conflated with fantasy, but just to provide some context, how much the wind affects a bullet depends on the speed of the bullet and it's ballistic coefficient. The ballistic coefficient is a fairly complex concept that is usually determined explicitly through measurement but is a function of bullet size, mass, speed, spin, shape and surface material.
Generally speaking the sorts of bullets that are presumed to be fired by PF type guns were fairly significantly affected by wind, much more so than modern bullets are. So for that reason I'd probably rule that wind wall at least provides some protection against them. Going strictly by RAW (which I probably wouldn't do) that would probably mean using the 30% miss chance.
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Not to get physics conflated with fantasy, but just to provide some context, how much the wind affects a bullet depends on the speed of the bullet and it's ballistic coefficient. The ballistic coefficient is a fairly complex concept that is usually determined explicitly through measurement but is a function of bullet size, mass, speed, spin, shape and surface material.
Generally speaking the sorts of bullets that are presumed to be fired by PF type guns were fairly significantly affected by wind, much more so than modern bullets are. So for that reason I'd probably rule that wind wall at least provides some protection against them. Going strictly by RAW (which I probably wouldn't do) that would probably mean using the 30% miss chance.
In the real world sure! But we can twiddle or fingers and rhyme magic into the air to block it, at a 30% success rate no less! No matter what silly old physics says.
protection from arrows spell plus bullet shield spell is about as good as you can do to stop bullets.
of course standing inside a fog spell works too ;)
and the smart caster will just throw up a wall of force around the guy with the gun and fill the space with a nasty cloud spell as he futilely tries to shoot his way out.
mmm yeah I should just play a God wizard .....
Cleric here. Yeah usually this isn't even an issue. What no will save? Hold person. I'll deal with you in a minute.
protection from arrows spell plus bullet shield spell is about as good as you can do to stop bullets.
of course standing inside a fog spell works too ;)
and the smart caster will just throw up a wall of force around the guy with the gun and fill the space with a nasty cloud spell as he futilely tries to shoot his way out.
mmm yeah I should just play a God wizard .....
Unless it's been errata'd or something, I was surprised to (re-)learn recently that walls of force can be damaged and destroyed, despite it's short-hand entry under the spell list.
Unless it's been errata'd or something, I was surprised to (re-)learn recently that walls of force can be damaged and destroyed, despite it's short-hand entry under the spell list.protection from arrows spell plus bullet shield spell is about as good as you can do to stop bullets.
of course standing inside a fog spell works too ;)
and the smart caster will just throw up a wall of force around the guy with the gun and fill the space with a nasty cloud spell as he futilely tries to shoot his way out.
mmm yeah I should just play a God wizard .....
hah "can" is a bit deceptive
The weakest wall of force has 30 hardness and 180 hit points, so yes in theory you can destroy it through damage but keep in mind
energy and ranged attacks only do half damage
so yeah you "can" but more likely the spell duration runs out first no way you can bring that much damage in a few short rounds.
I'd actually be interested to see a build that can take down a wall of force in a timely fashion by purely doing damage to it.
True!
I once had an elder red wyrm NEARLY break through a wall of force with a single blast of its breath weapon.
I would imagine a ragelancepouncish build could do it.