In this situation, I am working on designing an item to use in a custom campaign.
The idea that I had was to have Breastplates that are inlaid with intricate onyx patterns, and upon death the armor casts Animate Dead on the wearer. (As a spoiler, the NPC's wearing these would have no idea what will happen to them upon death, they will think that these are just fancy magical breastplates.)
My questions...
1) How the heck do I price this one?
Would I calculate a Single Use Spell Completion item (like a scroll), at {Spell level x caster level x 25 gp} for the Animate Dead spell, plus a constant Status spell to see if the wearer is alive {Spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp} plus the cost of enough Onyx to match the caster level of the Animate Dead spell?
Placing the Animate Dead at CL5 (minimum) since it seems that the exact CL of the spell doesn't matter, just the CL of the actual caster is what counts.
AnimateDead{3x5x25}+Status{2x3x2000}+Onyx10HD{250} = 12625 gp
2) Should the cost to enchant this onto the items be deducted from the BBEG's funds, or from the individual NPC's funds, or just hand-waived as part of the adventure?
3) If the original caster of this enchant is miles away from the undead when they animate, will he still be in control of them (assuming that he's not at his control limit of HD) or would they turn into uncontrolled undead?
Who would purchase such armor? Unless the party is in contact with other Evil Over Lords for business purposes, who would they even sell them to?
A price might not even be needed.
Or maybe the armor crumples to dust.
It's not armor that would be desired by anyone... it's more of a plot point. The NPC's that end up wearing this would not normally wear it willingly, nor will they have any idea that this is what it will actually do.
If I don't need to deduct the cost from funds, then the price won't matter.
I think I also need the enchant to detect as if it were the Determination" enchant... not sure how to pull that one off either :-/
sounds like its cursed to me so cheap
sounds like its cursed to me so cheap
Being cursed would work... any idea how to build it?
If the item was cursed, I could probably forgo the Status spell and just calculate the cost based on the Animate Dead spell and the Onyx, so 625gp. Being a cursed item could explain monitoring life and detecting as a different enchant.
I would price it a lot cheaper, because you don't need the status spell.
Plenty of items trigger off of specific conditions (such as use-activated), and we consider that to be part of the enchantment. We don't require the caster to put another enchantment on the item to hear the command word or see that someone has put the item on.
So, I'd price it as "single use, use-activated". For a third level spell, that adds a mere 750 gp to the price of the armor. Add in the 10 HD onyx, and you get 1,000 gp total. If that's too cheap, you can decide that the armor has to already be magical, like we do for other effects. So +1 zombifying armor costs 2,000 gp.
So, I'd price it as "single use, use-activated". For a third level spell, that adds a mere 750 gp to the price of the armor. Add in the 10 HD onyx, and you get 1,000 gp total. If that's too cheap, you can decide that the armor has to already be magical, like we do for other effects. So +1 zombifying armor costs 2,000 gp.
Sounds good. I could definitely see bumping it up to 2k to cover the cost of detecting as a different enchant.
But the question still remains, do I subtract that cost from the individual NPC's wealth, the boss's wealth, or just hand-waive it?
But the question still remains, do I subtract that cost from the individual NPC's wealth, the boss's wealth, or just hand-waive it?
I would subtract it from the NPC's wealth - but I would also give the NPC total wealth equal to both their alive and undead stats, to represent the fact that the PCs are going to be fighting them in both forms. I'm guessing it becomes about a wash.
It's a little fuzzy, I'd agree. I'd consider it as one of the NPC's 'special abilities' and include it as part of their CR. I realize that's what you're trying to do, but... the approach is a little different. :3
That is, for my own I wouldn't worry about it being an item at all--just part of the challenge, and adjust other abilities accordingly. In the case of this, as it's cursed, its "value" may not truly reflect its impact on the antagonist's abilities.
As for selling--sounds like that could be a moot point. Either they would want to destroy it, or selling it in and of itself would be a dangerous quest.
I would subtract it from the NPC's wealth - but I would also give the NPC total wealth equal to both their alive and undead stats, to represent the fact that the PCs are going to be fighting them in both forms. I'm guessing it becomes about a wash.
Hm... so I could subtract it from their "undead wealth"...
I guess when designing the encounter I should factor in a zombie of their HD to the CR as well, right?
As for selling--sounds like that could be a moot point. Either they would want to destroy it, or selling it in and of itself would be a dangerous quest.
Oh I wouldn't expect that the PC's will get their hands on one of these that hasn't already been activated (planning on it being a "one and done" type of effect), but should they manage to do that I would say that selling one of these would be a very very bad idea...
You can probably justify a significant discount because most of the spell will be wasted. Animate dead is a 3rd level spell. So it would usually animate 10HD of undead per casting. Most humanoids have 0 hit dice and animate as 1HD skeleton (or 2HD zombie). So you are only getting 1/10th of what you pay for.
I think you could make the suits "in bulk." So say 5 armours that each animate 2HD zombies would would cost 750 gp.
You can add a discount or surcharge depending on how powerful you think these are.
The armour's value would be deducted from the creature's wealth. Remember, since your zombies would be using the wearer's equipment, you have to pay for the equipment "twice" to get a good measure of the CR. This would reduce the treasure the PCs get.
Also, how would the allies of the armour wearers react when their buddies start reanimating?
You can probably justify a significant discount because most of the spell will be wasted. Animate dead is a 3rd level spell. So it would usually animate 10HD of undead per casting. Most humanoids have 0 hit dice and animate as 1HD skeleton (or 2HD zombie). So you are only getting 1/10th of what you pay for.
I think you could make the suits "in bulk." So say 5 armours that each animate 2HD zombies would would cost 750 gp.
You can add a discount or surcharge depending on how powerful you think these are.
The armour's value would be deducted from the creature's wealth. Remember, since your zombies would be using the wearer's equipment, you have to pay for the equipment "twice" to get a good measure of the CR. This would reduce the treasure the PCs get.
Also, how would the allies of the armour wearers react when their buddies start reanimating?
Maybe they are part of some cult that see it as some sort of honor. Similar to how the Space Marines of WH40K put their dead in Dreadnaughts so they may continue the fight.
1) As AvalonXQ said.2) Presuming they are supposed to be fighting the PCs? From their regular funds. The fact that they wouldn't willingly turn into undead horrors doesn't change the fact that it is an effect that is being used by them (sort of) to further their battle against the PCs in the same encounter.
Sounds good, I'll price it as described and subtract from the standard funds.
3) The undead would be uncontrolled, as they essentially "animated themselves."Edit: An interesting RP possibility would include Create Undead or Grater* Undead. Now the subject has a mind and no loyalty to BBEG, but the sickening terrifying hunger that gnaws at him. Will the party put him out of his misery or try to use him? His lust for vengeance and undead abilities could make him useful, but they could also make him a liability if he can't control the urge to feed.
And undead CAN be resurrected, or at least given the peace of knowing they had their vengeance.
This... is brilliant. Now I'm thinking "Lesser Zombifying" armor for the NPC's 'guards', and "Major Zombifying" for the main NPC. I was originally just going to use the "Zombie Lord" template for the main NPC
Zombie Lord (CR as Zombie of same HD +1)
Zombie lords are the fleshy counterparts to skeletal champions, rare zombies who have somehow managed to retain their intelligence.
Use the normal zombie template for the zombie lord’s Armor Class, base save bonuses, speed, melee attacks, base attack bonus, and damage reduction.
Use the skeletal champion template for the zombie lord’s Hit Dice, skills, and ability scores. Zombie lords gain channel resistance +4 and Toughness as a bonus feat. A zombie lord does not gain the staggered special quality.
Where can I find rules/details on building the type of undead that you described? I'm not finding information on it under Create Undead
The armour's value would be deducted from the creature's wealth. Remember, since your zombies would be using the wearer's equipment, you have to pay for the equipment "twice" to get a good measure of the CR. This would reduce the treasure the PCs get.
This is a very good point. I'll have to compensate by adding additional treasure to the encounter equal to the wealth difference. I'll either add something they can find, or more likely, I'll add a reward for returning with information/proof of what happened.
Also, how would the allies of the armour wearers react when their buddies start reanimating?
Oh they're going to freak out...largely depends on what order they're killed in, really. I'll have notes on what happens if the PC's take out the main NPC first versus killing the lackeys first. Basically, if the main NPC isn't killed first, the lackeys and main NPC will blame the PC's as the culprits for reanimating their friends.
Maybe they are part of some cult that see it as some sort of honor.
Nope, just different enemy faction playing against each other. It's always fun when the enemy that you thought was the real enemy turns out to be not quite as bad compared to the enemy who you thought was your friend and was tricking all parties, right?
You are not the first to have this idea.
In a war, armor that animates the occupant is just good tactics.
Least armor of the eternal warrior. The wearer becomes a zombie. Functions just once a day. They continue the last actions from when they were alive.
Lesser AOTEW: Uses create undead.
Greater: Uses Create Greater undead.
Like the Sword of Berserking, it is cursed no matter how much your character might want it. To create it requires masterwork armor, the spell components, the specific spells, and lots of sulfur and black candles.
Huh? You mean the vague statements about unnatural hunger and such? Ghouls and vampires specifically hunger for and devour the people they kill (technically ghouls prefer to let it rot a bit first, but they aren't always picky). Also Wights, Wraiths, ghasts, and etc.
Beyond that it is fairly open-ended. Undead are pretty much always portrayed as feeling a *need* to kill people. It is not an unreasonable plot device to say the Zombie Lord template has a hunger for human flesh (which brings no stat benefits but still requires force of will to overcome). It would be like the Dhampir's thirst for blood.
Yes, that is what I was referring to. I wanted to make sure before I made stuff up that there wasn't a rule/guideline for this already.
You are not the first to have this idea.
In a war, armor that animates the occupant is just good tactics.
Least armor of the eternal warrior. The wearer becomes a zombie. Functions just once a day. They continue the last actions from when they were alive.
Lesser AOTEW: Uses create undead.
Greater: Uses Create Greater undead.
I don't think I ever claimed this as an original idea... I also have no idea what you are quoting. Can you elaborate a little?
I'll try to find the original thread or threads.
I think it was a magic item feature topic.
I'd price it similar to the Determination armor quality:
Aura moderate conjuration; CL 10th;
Once per day, when the owner reaches 0 or fewer hit points, the item automatically provides a breath of life spell.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
Craft Magic Arms and Armor, breath of life; Price +30,000 gp.
Pricing is determined by:
5 (spell level) x 10 (caster level) x 2000 (use-activated) x 1/5 (once/day) x 1.5 (on existing armor slot) = 30,000 gp.
For Animate Dead, I'm gonna go with 20 CL for creating up to 10 HD undead creature:
Single use = {3 (spell level) x 20 (caster level) x 50 (single use, use-activated) + [25gp x 10 HD] (material component)} x 1.5 = 4,875 gp
1/day = {3 (spell level) x 20 (caster level) x 2000 (single use, use-activated) x 1/5 (once/day) + 50[25gp x 10 HD] (material component)} x 1.5 = 54,750 gp
For Animate Dead, I'm gonna go with 20 CL for creating up to 10 HD undead creature:
It's 2 HD per caster level, so you only need 5 CL for 10 HD undead.
So divide your costs by 4.
For Animate Dead, I'm gonna go with 20 CL for creating up to 10 HD undead creature:It's 2 HD per caster level, so you only need 5 CL for 10 HD undead.
So divide your costs by 4.
D'oh! Totally misread that! Never looked into necromancy spells before.
Ok, so, I'm gonna up the HD to 20, cuz why not turn ANY non-epic sucker who wears the thing into new zombie? lol
Single use = {3 (spell level) x 10 (caster level) x 50 (single use, use-activated) + [25gp x 20 HD] (material component)} x 1.5 = 3,000 gp
1/day = {3 (spell level) x 10 (caster level) x 2000 (use-activated) x 1/5 (once/day) + 50[25gp x 20 HD] (material component)} x 1.5 = 55,500 gp
Though if you only want CL 5, HD 10: cost of single use is only 1500 gp and 1/day is 27,750 gp.
Ok, so, I'm gonna up the HD to 20, cuz why not turn ANY non-epic sucker who wears the thing into new zombie? lolSingle use = {3 (spell level) x 10 (caster level) x 50 (single use, use-activated) + [25gp x 20 HD] (material component)} x 1.5 = 3,000 gp
1/day = {3 (spell level) x 10 (caster level) x 2000 (use-activated) x 1/5 (once/day) + 50[25gp x 20 HD] (material component)} x 1.5 = 55,500 gp
Though if you only want CL 5, HD 10: cost of single use is only 1500 gp and 1/day is 27,750 gp.
The intent of the enchant is to be a "one and done", so single use. The CL of the spell only determines the max HD of the undead created. The spell/rules also don't state that you can't create an undead of lesser HD than the original creature, so even if the NPC had 15 HD, I should be able to create a 10 HD undead from his corpse.
I'm not sure why you're adding on the 1.5x multiplier to the cost. That is just for adding additional abilities to an existing item, but I believe that only applies to Wondrous Items, not to armor enchants (good ol' lack of info in crafting guidelines!).
It definitely applies to armor enchants. Determination and all the skill bonuses applied to armor (slick and shadow for example) needs that x1.5 in order to get the pricing right.