I know its written somewhere I just can't find where.
Basically if a Sorcerer is riding an animal can they still cast as a full round action if the mount moves ? e.g. casting metamagic ? Or must the mount remain stationary ?
I know they'll take the vigorous concentration check of 10+spell level
Yes, a character can take a full round action while riding a mount that has moved during that turn. Because it's the mount that moved, not the character in question.
Yes, a character can take a full round action while riding a mount that has moved during that turn. Because it's the mount that moved, not the character in question.
thank you, I had this really weird rule floating in my head that you lose your move action when mounted , must be an older system rule.
as a followup question
if the creature your riding is in a grapple are you considered in the grapple ?
CRB, page 202 "Combat while mounted": " If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can't make a full attack." I don't know what that means in regard to spells, but it does mean that Some Random Dood is not entirely correct.
Further quote, same page "Casting Spells While Mounted": "You can cast a spell normally if your mount moves up to a normal move (its speed) either before or after you cast. If you have your mount move both before and after you cast a spell, then you're casting the spell while the mount is moving, and you have to make a concentration check due to the vigorous motion (DC 10 + spell level) or lose the spell. If the mount is running (quadruple speed), you can cast a spell when your mount has moved up to twice its speed, but your concentration check is more difficult due to the violent motion (DC 15 + spell level)."
CRB, page 202 "Combat while mounted": " If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can't make a full attack." I don't know what that means in regard to spells, but it does mean that Some Random Dood is not entirely correct.
Further quote, same page "Casting Spells While Mounted": "You can cast a spell normally if your mount moves up to a normal move (its speed) either before or after you cast. If you have your mount move both before and after you cast a spell, then you're casting the spell while the mount is moving, and you have to make a concentration check due to the vigorous motion (DC 10 + spell level) or lose the spell. If the mount is running (quadruple speed), you can cast a spell when your mount has moved up to twice its speed, but your concentration check is more difficult due to the violent motion (DC 15 + spell level)."
yeah mate found those before I posted, neither address the question which is why I asked
When it comes to mounted combat, you and your mount are not really independent creatures when it comes to actions.
So, you don't get to advantageously wait for your mount's turn to finish before you take yours. If your mount is not combat trained... it takes a move action every round to control it, so you can not cast full round action spells without beginning on one round and completing on the other.
If you are on a combat trained mount, you do not need to expand actions from action economy. (Ride checks are still required but they are free actions)
If you are casting a full round action spell, you will be casting during the time a mount is moving on your turn, so any movement beyond a 5 foot step (trot?) that the mount makes, is occurring during your casting.
so, as Derwalt referenced, the Concentration DCs are based on how much of a move action the mount it taking. single move 10+spell level, more than single move 15+spell level.
When it comes to mounted combat, you and your mount are not really independent creatures when it comes to actions.
So, you don't get to advantageously wait for your mount's turn to finish before you take yours. If your mount is not combat trained... it takes a move action every round to control it, so you can not cast full round action spells without beginning on one round and completing on the other.
If you are on a combat trained mount, you do not need to expand actions from action economy. (Ride checks are still required but they are free actions)
If you are casting a full round action spell, you will be casting during the time a mount is moving on your turn, so any movement beyond a 5 foot step (trot?) that the mount makes, is occurring during your casting.
so, as Derwalt referenced, the Concentration DCs are based on how much of a move action the mount it taking. single move 10+spell level, more than single move 15+spell level.
but you can still cast a full round spell while the mount is moving correct? making its charge attack ? grappling an opponent etc ?
I'm not overly concerned with the DC's DC11-12 or DC16-18 with a +6-8 concentration check before optimizing its not a big deal, if you really can't afford to fail the spell, don't move or dismount simple enough
better yet uncanny concentration don't even need to make conc checks for violent moving while riding and a +2conc bonus to boot !
I agree with MC Templar, with the exception that your mount may take a (single) move action, and then you can cast a spell (requiring a standard action), without needing to make a concentration check.
I agree with MC Templar, with the exception that your mount may take a (single) move action, and then you can cast a spell (requiring a standard action), without needing to make a concentration check.
so you agree that you can cast a full round spell while your mount moves or even attacks as its full round action so long as you make the conc check or have unnatural concentration feat ?
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I agree with MC Templar, with the exception that your mount may take a (single) move action, and then you can cast a spell (requiring a standard action), without needing to make a concentration check.so you agree that you can cast a full round spell while your mount moves or even attacks as its full round action so long as you make the conc check or have unnatural concentration feat ?
Yeah, I'm doing something similar with a Nature Oracle and that sounds about right. Just remember that you will have to make a couple concentration checks when casting a spell as a full round action while mounted:
1. If your mount moves more than one move action you will need a concentration check (unless you have unnatural concentration which I see you are already thinking of based on your other thread).2. You will need one if you cast in a threatened area.
3. If you take damage while casting you will need to make a concentration check.
4. Anything else I might be missing and am to lazy to look up.
What I would suggest is do something like the following (I'm using my Oracle as an example):
1. While mount moves to enemy cast a touch spell (I like Inflict x wounds), to avoid the concentration check for being in combat.
2. Have mount attack enemy (I have a wolf so he also gets a free trip attack which is nice)
3. Make free touch attack against the enemy (who is now prone for me).
4. Wait for him to stand up and clobber him with two attacks of opportunity!
Also, just for fun you and your mount could invest in Teamwork Feats together, so that you can almost always use them because you are always adjacent to one another (if he has an Int of 3+ that is)!
I agree with MC Templar, with the exception that your mount may take a (single) move action, and then you can cast a spell (requiring a standard action), without needing to make a concentration check.so you agree that you can cast a full round spell while your mount moves or even attacks as its full round action so long as you make the conc check or have unnatural concentration feat ?Yeah, I'm doing something similar with a Nature Oracle and that sounds about right. Just remember that you will have to make a couple concentration checks when casting a spell as a full round action while mounted:
1. If your mount moves more than one move action you will need a concentration check (unless you have unnatural concentration which I see you are already thinking of based on your other thread).
2. You will need one if you cast in a threatened area.
3. If you take damage while casting you will need to make a concentration check.
4. Anything else I might be missing and am to lazy to look up.What I would suggest is do something like the following (I'm using my Oracle as an example):
1. While mount moves to enemy cast a touch spell (I like Inflict x wounds), to avoid the concentration check for being in combat.
2. Have mount attack enemy (I have a wolf so he also gets a free trip attack which is nice)
3. Make free touch attack against the enemy (who is now prone for me).
4. Wait for him to stand up and clobber him with two attacks of opportunity!Also, just for fun you and your mount could invest in Teamwork Feats together, so that you can almost always use them because you are always adjacent to one another (if he has an Int of 3+ that is)!
I was thinking the GangUp feat would be a good choice for both PC and companion then we need only one other creature to threaten at the same time and we have flank from any angle. Does mean I need to arm my sorc with a weapon so he does threaten
couple that with the flank teamwork feat for nice +4 bonuses which will really make touch attacks hit home for the sorc
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I was thinking the GangUp feat would be a good choice for both PC and companion then we need only one other creature to threaten at the same time and we have flank from any angle. Does mean I need to arm my sorc with a weapon so he does threaten
couple that with the the flank teamwork feat for nice +4 bonuses which will really make touch attacks hit home for the sorc
You really don't need the Gang Up Feat, rather take Eldritch Heritage and go Arcane Bloodline (I know you are already a sorcerer but it doesn't matter) take improved familiar and poof, you get two companions and all three of you have the same turn so you can always be flanking an opponent and not have to negotiate with teammates.
You really don't need the Gang Up Feat, rather take Eldritch Heritage and go Arcane Bloodline (I know you are already a sorcerer but it doesn't matter) take improved familiar and poof, you get two companions and all three of you have the same turn so you can always be flanking an opponent and not have to negotiate with teammates.I was thinking the GangUp feat would be a good choice for both PC and companion then we need only one other creature to threaten at the same time and we have flank from any angle. Does mean I need to arm my sorc with a weapon so he does threaten
couple that with the the flank teamwork feat for nice +4 bonuses which will really make touch attacks hit home for the sorc
was actually looking at crossblooding this idea with Sage for INT to casting so I wouldn't be able to do that, but its still a good idea in its own right.
although your idea plus gang up means if you ride your companion and your familiar rides along as well all three of you create a flank from a single direction :) although the familiar would need a 5ft reach
btw gangup only calls for allies to threaten not be flanking so as long as you attack a target that already has someone adjacent your flanking when you get there no coordination is needed.
Depending on what the caster may be holding, he may also need to make a Ride check to control the mount with his knees.
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If your mount is making a double move and you want to cast a full round casting time spell you'll not only have to make a concentration check, but you'll need to use the "start/ complete full round action" standard action.
The rounds would go like this: First round- Mount moves its speed, you begin casting, make concentration check, mount moves its speed again. Round two- mount moves, you complete casting, spell goes off, mount moves again.
--School of Vrock
You really don't need the Gang Up Feat, rather take Eldritch Heritage and go Arcane Bloodline (I know you are already a sorcerer but it doesn't matter) take improved familiar and poof, you get two companions and all three of you have the same turn so you can always be flanking an opponent and not have to negotiate with teammates.I was thinking the GangUp feat would be a good choice for both PC and companion then we need only one other creature to threaten at the same time and we have flank from any angle. Does mean I need to arm my sorc with a weapon so he does threaten
couple that with the the flank teamwork feat for nice +4 bonuses which will really make touch attacks hit home for the sorc
Your familiar would have to be Small, else it likely doesn't have the reach to threaten, and thus be unable to provide flanking.
I recommend the Escape Route teamwork feat. Put it on both you and your mount, and neither of you will ever be bothered by movement-related AoO's during mounted combat for the rest of your career.
Good catch with the GangUp thing, I misread that. However, you have an issue still. Your mount can't take it because it requires an Int 13. And I don't believe familiars can gain feats. So you need an additional teammate (Leadership comes to mind) to get this done.
Ah but unlike teamwork feats gang up only requires you have 2 creatures threatening the target they don't need to have the feat.
of course then only the sorc gets the flank bonus and that would only help touch spells so its not a fantastic option
If your mount is making a double move and you want to cast a full round casting time spell you'll not only have to make a concentration check, but you'll need to use the "start/ complete full round action" standard action.
The rounds would go like this: First round- Mount moves its speed, you begin casting, make concentration check, mount moves its speed again. Round two- mount moves, you complete casting, spell goes off, mount moves again.
--School of Vrock
I would certainly appreciate a link to the rule behind this because it seems like your suggesting you lose you move action while riding if the mount moves.
Gang Up rocks. It is not a teamwork feat although it does require 2 allies to use. A horse is an ally. I hadnt considered that before, nice catch. Just need one more ally to threaten and you count as flanking regardless of position. Great feat for rogues too.
- Gauss
You really don't need the Gang Up Feat, rather take Eldritch Heritage and go Arcane Bloodline (I know you are already a sorcerer but it doesn't matter) take improved familiar and poof, you get two companions and all three of you have the same turn so you can always be flanking an opponent and not have to negotiate with teammates.I was thinking the GangUp feat would be a good choice for both PC and companion then we need only one other creature to threaten at the same time and we have flank from any angle. Does mean I need to arm my sorc with a weapon so he does threaten
couple that with the the flank teamwork feat for nice +4 bonuses which will really make touch attacks hit home for the sorcYour familiar would have to be Small, else it likely doesn't have the reach to threaten, and thus be unable to provide flanking.
I recommend the Escape Route teamwork feat. Put it on both you and your mount, and neither of you will ever be bothered by movement-related AoO's during mounted combat for the rest of your career.
THAT SIR ! is Pure Genius !
No AoO's from movement ever again , wow just wow :)
Thanks Phasics. My summoner and his serpent-dragon eidolon mount use the combo to great effect. Drives my GM nuts.
btw I appreciate all the comments some have been very useful but it seems no one has found the rules to answer the original question ;)
"Can you cast as a full round action while your mount is e.g. moving, or making its own full round action like attacking ?"
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AFAIK there is no rule against that so you can do it.
There is no need of a specific rule allowing that.
Grappling for sure count at least as vigorous motion and probably the same is true for any attack form using claws, hooves or any appendage that your mount normally use for support but nothing prohibit you from casting while your mount is moving.
A mount and his rider's actions are separate and independent of one another. The mounted combat rules add a few limitations, but otherwise you act normally.
Yes, you can cast ANY spell while mounted. However, if you cast WHILE moving, then need to make concentration checks.
RAW is pretty clear on the matter I think.
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A mount and his rider's actions are separate and independent of one another. The mounted combat rules add a few limitations, but otherwise you act normally.
Yes, you can cast ANY spell while mounted. However, if you cast WHILE moving, then need to make concentration checks.
RAW is pretty clear on the matter I think.
I agree with this
Thanks guys that makes sense
so basically grab unnatural concentration asap and then whatever you mount is doing is pretty much irrelevant as far as your casting goes.
I'm finding it interesting that as a small character you could potentially be riding a huge creature and effectively have the reach of 5ft around its space to deliver your attacks while not suffering the issues of being huge yourself as a weakly caster
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Thanks guys that makes sense
so basically grab unnatural concentration asap and then whatever you mount is doing is pretty much irrelevant as far as your casting goes.
I'm finding it interesting that as a small character you could potentially be riding a huge creature and effectively have the reach of 5ft around its space to deliver your attacks while not suffering the issues of being huge yourself as a weakly caster
I may be wrong, but I think unnatural concentration will cover everything your mount does except running. But I'm not 100% sure on this.
I may be wrong, but I think unnatural concentration will cover everything your mount does except running. But I'm not 100% sure on this.Thanks guys that makes sense
so basically grab unnatural concentration asap and then whatever you mount is doing is pretty much irrelevant as far as your casting goes.
I'm finding it interesting that as a small character you could potentially be riding a huge creature and effectively have the reach of 5ft around its space to deliver your attacks while not suffering the issues of being huge yourself as a weakly caster
it covers all vigorous and violent motion. Unless running creates more than violent motion ?
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Prerequisites: Combat Casting.
Benefit: You do not need to make concentration checks when affected by vigorous or violent motion or by violent weather. You gain a +2 bonus on all other concentration checks.
"
unnatural concentrationNot in the PRD or d20pfsrd currently.
Let's me guess: the pirate AP and meant to be used on ships?
Nope Ultimate Magic
It's listed as uncanny concentration on the d20pfsrd.
Apparently I'm dyslexic tonight ;)
I managed to find it last night despite the typo in this thread.
Yes, it's called UNCANNY Concentration, not UNNATURAL Concentration.
I would certainly appreciate a link to the rule behind this because it seems like your suggesting you lose you move action while riding if the mount moves.
Control Mount in Battle: As a move action, you can attempt to control a light horse, pony, heavy horse, or other mount not trained for combat riding while in battle. If you fail the Ride check, you can do nothing else in that round. You do not need to roll for horses or ponies trained for combat.
Start/Complete Full-Round Action
The "start full-round action" standard action lets you start undertaking a full-round action, which you can complete in the following round by using another standard action. You can't use this action to start or complete a full attack, charge, run, or withdraw.
If you're in combat and your mount is not combat-trained, you are required to take a move action to attempt to control the mount every round. If this is the case, you would be restricted to taking standard actions on two consecutive turns to cast a full-round casting time spell by taking the, "start/complete full round action," actions.
If you're on a combat-trained mount, you can ignore that requirement.
EDIT: Moral of the story? Spend the extra 35gp for a combat-trained light horse, or invest in Handle Animal and train whatever mount you plan to ride.