As I mentioned in another thread looking for help selecting a character, I'm looking to play in the Skull & Shackles AP coming up in the next month or so. I've narrowed it down to a couple builds and some sort of switch hitter combatant was one of the builds I'm considering. My question is what class would be best to create a switch hitter with? Is a Ranger still best, and if so is Treantmonk's guide still the best resource for that build? Is there a Fighter build that is as good or better than a Ranger for a switch hitter? What about multiclassing?
In my opinion the Ranger is still the best. The ability to have mediocre Dex (using the archery combat style) and high Str means you'll be pumping out decent damage with your bow and excellent with 2H melee. Plus rangers have tons of other cool abilities and skills to keep you occupied out of combat.
If hungry for something else, you could try an Inquisitor because Bane is powerful and they are fun to play. But feats and MAD won't be as manageable as the classic Ranger switch hitter.
kaisc006 wrote: In my opinion the Ranger is still the best. The ability to have mediocre Dex (using the archery combat style) and high Str means you'll be pumping out decent damage with your bow and excellent with 2H melee. Plus rangers have tons of other cool abilities and skills to keep you occupied out of combat.
If hungry for something else, you could try an Inquisitor because Bane is powerful and they are fun to play. But feats and MAD won't be as manageable as the classic Ranger switch hitter.
What sort of stat array would you suggest with a 20 point buy? Right now I'm considering these stats:
Str 16
Int 12
Wis 14
Dex 14
Con 14
Cha 7
Bakunin wrote: What sort of stat array would you suggest with a 20 point buy? I would suggest:
Str 18 (+2 race)
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 9
Wis 14
Cha 7
You're not stupid, just haven't recieved a formal education. As for race choose human (feat) or half-orc (darkvision). Elves can work too. For optimization use a falchion or if elf elven curved blade. Remember you are a melee fighter who just happens to be great with his bow as well.
kaisc006 wrote: Bakunin wrote: What sort of stat array would you suggest with a 20 point buy? I would suggest:
Str 18 (+2 race)
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 9
Wis 14
Cha 7
You're not stupid, just haven't recieved a formal education. As for race choose human (feat) or half-orc (darkvision). Elves can work too. For optimization use a falchion or if elf elven curved blade. Remember you are a melee fighter who just happens to be great with his bow as well. Hrm...will have to think about that. Still gives me 6 skill ranks if Human. On a tangent, would you suggest a different build for being a main fighter type? I'm in a party that consists of a Gnome Bard, Half Orc Witch, Sylph Magus, and more than likely a Human Cleric. I'm just wondering if a switch hitter Ranger would still work as a great fit for the group.
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Bakunin wrote: I'm just wondering if a switch hitter Ranger would still work as a great fit for the group. Well first and foremost choose a character that you will enjoy playing. There are a lot of contributing factors into what will fit with a group. I would focus more on the optimization level of your group. If they are optimizers then optimize your character. If not then optimization isn't critical because the GM will need to adjust encounters to meet this.
The key is being super effective at what you want your character to do, switch hitting for example. You should also pick at least one non-combat skill to focus such as Perception or Survival. Personally as a Ranger I stack up on Knowledge skills to identify monsters. So long as you have a well built character who's effective at what you want him to do, then you should be contributing to any group.
That said, your switch-hitter stat array is optimized and sticking to Treantmonk's guide will suit you well.
kaisc006 wrote: I would focus more on the optimization level of your group. If they are optimizers then optimize your character. If not then optimization isn't critical because the GM will need to adjust encounters to meet this. This is great advice!
I've found that I have a lot more fun when I don't over or under optimize compared to the group I'm in. My way of down-grading optimization to fit a group is to choose a sub-optimal strategy/build and then optimize is as much as I feel like.
Bakunin wrote:
Str 16
Int 12
Wis 14
Dex 14
Con 14
Cha 7
Holy 1st Edition stat order, Batman.
Gambit wrote: Bakunin wrote:
Str 16
Int 12
Wis 14
Dex 14
Con 14
Cha 7
Holy 1st Edition stat order, Batman. Guilty! No idea why that stat order has stuck with me for so long. Just feels right.
Blueluck wrote: kaisc006 wrote: I would focus more on the optimization level of your group. If they are optimizers then optimize your character. If not then optimization isn't critical because the GM will need to adjust encounters to meet this. This is great advice!
I've found that I have a lot more fun when I don't over or under optimize compared to the group I'm in. My way of down-grading optimization to fit a group is to choose a sub-optimal strategy/build and then optimize is as much as I feel like. I guess I'm just concerned since the other players are coming from 4th edition and aren't going to have spent as much time looking at ways to optimize their characters. That, plus no full BAB class being played by the other players in the group makes me want to try and find someone that can 'tank' for the party, pardon the MMO expression.
Bakunin wrote: That, plus no full BAB class being played by the other players in the group makes me want to try and find someone that can 'tank' for the party, pardon the MMO expression. A big divergent from talking switch hitter lol but tanking works a little differently in PF due to the inability to force aggro enemies. Your best bet to get their attention would be charging into their faces and dealing large amounts of damage. GMs will most likely target your character because he will be the largest threat. If you build a character completely focused in AC the GM will more than likely just run around you.
For tankiness, I prefer a Ronin Samurai. Resolve coupled with their level 2 ability to re-roll any failed Will save with a duration longer than one round transforms you into an unstoppable DPR machine. 2H your katana and wear heavy armor. Slap on the sword saint archetype to lose the mounted combat abilities. The Samurai can dip fighter (weapon master) four levels and still make out ok. If you really want to deal damage take 2 levels in ninja and burn ki for extra attacks. Your party is without a rogue so perhaps a ninja would be welcome.
Another option would be a Manuever Master monk. This character would use reach weapons to trip foes on AoO and prevent them from reaching your party. Monks have great saves and using a reach weapon would help with your low AC. You could also get disarm and make that BBEG suddenly find his awesome +2 human bane/keen falchion in your hands.
kaisc006 wrote: Bakunin wrote: That, plus no full BAB class being played by the other players in the group makes me want to try and find someone that can 'tank' for the party, pardon the MMO expression. A big divergent from talking switch hitter lol but tanking works a little differently in PF due to the inability to force aggro enemies. Your best bet to get their attention would be charging into their faces and dealing large amounts of damage. GMs will most likely target your character because he will be the largest threat. If you build a character completely focused in AC the GM will more than likely just run around you.
For tankiness, I prefer a Ronin Samurai. Resolve coupled with their level 2 ability to re-roll any failed Will save with a duration longer than one round transforms you into an unstoppable DPR machine. 2H your katana and wear heavy armor. Slap on the sword saint archetype to lose the mounted combat abilities. The Samurai can dip fighter (weapon master) four levels and still make out ok. If you really want to deal damage take 2 levels in ninja and burn ki for extra attacks. Your party is without a rogue so perhaps a ninja would be welcome.
Another option would be a Manuever Master monk. This character would use reach weapons to trip foes on AoO and prevent them from reaching your party. Monks have great saves and using a reach weapon would help with your low AC. You could also get disarm and make that BBEG suddenly find his awesome +2 human bane/keen falchion in your hands.
Yeah, I have to get used to 3.x/Pathfinder style 'tanking' as well. I definitely like the sound of being able to reroll failed will saves. I still have memories of my last 3.x fighter being commanded to attack the party. I'll have to look into both of those options my group gets together this weekend to fully create our characters.
How well does the Beastmaster archetype go with the Switch hitter Ranger? And what's the best animal companion to go along with that? I'd be looking to get one full level animal companion rather than take multiple ones. Is there another Archetype that would go well with Beastmaster?
Bakunin wrote: How well does the Beastmaster archetype go with the Switch hitter Ranger? And what's the best animal companion to go along with that? I'd be looking to get one full level animal companion rather than take multiple ones. Is there another Archetype that would go well with Beastmaster? I'm interested in hearing about this as well. any thoughts on a switch hitter beastmaster?
kaisc006 wrote: Bakunin wrote: That, plus no full BAB class being played by the other players in the group makes me want to try and find someone that can 'tank' for the party, pardon the MMO expression. A big divergent from talking switch hitter lol but tanking works a little differently in PF due to the inability to force aggro enemies. Your best bet to get their attention would be charging into their faces and dealing large amounts of damage. GMs will most likely target your character because he will be the largest threat. If you build a character completely focused in AC the GM will more than likely just run around you.
For tankiness, I prefer a Ronin Samurai. Resolve coupled with their level 2 ability to re-roll any failed Will save with a duration longer than one round transforms you into an unstoppable DPR machine. 2H your katana and wear heavy armor. Slap on the sword saint archetype to lose the mounted combat abilities. The Samurai can dip fighter (weapon master) four levels and still make out ok. If you really want to deal damage take 2 levels in ninja and burn ki for extra attacks. Your party is without a rogue so perhaps a ninja would be welcome.
Another option would be a Manuever Master monk. This character would use reach weapons to trip foes on AoO and prevent them from reaching your party. Monks have great saves and using a reach weapon would help with your low AC. You could also get disarm and make that BBEG suddenly find his awesome +2 human bane/keen falchion in your hands.
Actually, there aren't many things tankier than a switch hitter. Archery puts out a lot of damage at range encouraging enemies to close for advantage. You draw aggro in Pathfinder by making yourself more dangerous when unengaged than when engaged. If your enemies need to send someone to fight you to stop you from filling them with arrows you are tanking, or at least the aggro drawing part thereof.
Theinexplicablefuzz wrote: Bakunin wrote: How well does the Beastmaster archetype go with the Switch hitter Ranger? And what's the best animal companion to go along with that? I'd be looking to get one full level animal companion rather than take multiple ones. Is there another Archetype that would go well with Beastmaster? I'm interested in hearing about this as well. any thoughts on a switch hitter beastmaster? As long as you are not going with Pathfinder Society it is a great trade off. you get Acrobatics as a skill and can still keep your companion as a single creature. Or if you want give a few levels to a bird of some type to help scout or send messages. Overall one of the best.
the only problem with Switch Hitting is as you gain levels bow rangers just put out a TON of damage and shooting into melee is rough without point blank and precise shot.
Pvtbane wrote: Theinexplicablefuzz wrote: Bakunin wrote: How well does the Beastmaster archetype go with the Switch hitter Ranger? And what's the best animal companion to go along with that? I'd be looking to get one full level animal companion rather than take multiple ones. Is there another Archetype that would go well with Beastmaster? I'm interested in hearing about this as well. any thoughts on a switch hitter beastmaster? As long as you are not going with Pathfinder Society it is a great trade off. you get Acrobatics as a skill and can still keep your companion as a single creature. Or if you want give a few levels to a bird of some type to help scout or send messages. Overall one of the best.
the only problem with Switch Hitting is as you gain levels bow rangers just put out a TON of damage and shooting into melee is rough without point blank and precise shot. Which brings us to the switch hitting part of the switch hitter. once melee has been initiated, you're in it, you don't keep sitting back and pumping arrows. That's just pre-melee damage
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