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I need suggestions for what class would fit this character:
Dr. Thomas "Archie" Cochrane was trained as a doctor at the University of Edinburgh before migrating to the USA. He later joined the US Calvary and escaped (read deserted) the battle of Little Big Horn. He now wanders the West helping those in need to help atone for his past misdeeds. Although a healer he is known to have some skill with a revolver when required.
The campaign assumes Guns Everywhere so he does not need to be a gunslinger to get proficiency.
The trouble I am having is trying to figure out how to make him a doctor/healer without magic. Or maybe with magic, but with an academic feel to it. I thought maybe Alchemist at first, but most of the Alchemist powers don't seem to fit. It may just not be possible, but I figured I would ask.
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I'd say make him a Gunslinger, but make his Wisdom higher than his Dex and keep your Heal skill maxed out. One level of Cleric or Druid would let you cast the occasional Cure spell, which you could then explain as "he's just that good at medicine".
Gunslingers eventually get the deed that lets them staunch a bleeding wound with their gun barrel, which is as closest think I can think of in PF to non-magical healing. Besides Heal checks, of course.
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Honestly, if you're not doing magical healing, then anything with Heal as a class skill will work.
With the right Trait selection, any class will work for this:
Ship's Surgeon
Battlefield Surgeon
Imperial Soldier
There may be more but that's a good start.
EDIT: overuse of the word "Honestly"
A level or 2 of inquisitor would give him heals, as well as good class skills and number of skills recieved. You could also be decent with a gun too(3/4bab and judements). Hell u could even go full out inquisitor and still play up the doctor who'll shoot u feel..
I'd consider comming at this from one of the bard achetypes. Bardic Knowledge would go along way towards scholar and you can limit the magic by only picking thematicly appropiate spells. Archivist would seem the most suitable but some of the others would also work.
YOu could even go cavalier/bard to battle herald for an interesting ex cavalry character.
Get a trait that gives you UMD as a class skill, grab some wands of cure light wounds etc and dress them up as medical devices?
Other than that, even if you don't like some of the alchemist's powers, there's the chirurgeon archetype.
You could either combine it with reanimator (I couldn't heal you... but I could bring you back!) or vivisectionist (I know how to heal people, I also know how to kill people).
Black powder inquisition inquisitor ... off the top of my head
Thanks for all the suggestions. They have given me a lot of new things to look at, although nothing has really fit yet. It might be like I originally thought and there just is no perfect answer. A Gunslinger with a medical bag may be as good as it gets.
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Thanks for all the suggestions. They have given me a lot of new things to look at, although nothing has really fit yet. It might be like I originally thought and there just is no perfect answer. A Gunslinger with a medical bag may be as good as it gets.
Alchemist for 4 levels is a very viable dip for a Gunslinger mechanically. Especially going Vivisectionist. Shield helps immensely with AC, Mutagen jacks Dex through the roof, and the whole thing just works well, synergy-wise. It delays Signature Deed, which hurts, but that's the only real price paid.
It also fits the doctor abilities and flavor perfectly.
I'd go Gunslinger (Pistolero) 1, Alchemist (Vivisectionist) 1, Gunslinger 2-5, Alchemist 2-4, and then whichever you like from then on (probably Gunslinger...but Alchemist focusing on Mutagen enhancements could be cool. Maybe even Master Chymist eventually if you wanted, especially if Guns count as Simple Weapons for Brutality).
One last thought have you considered Holy Gun? Its a gun using healer with a few divine spells or if you don't want the spells you can also take Warrior of the Holy light which gives you some extra healing options in place of magic.
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One last thought have you considered Holy Gun? Its a gun using healer with a few divine spells or if you don't want the spells you can also take Warrior of the Holy light which gives you some extra healing options in place of magic.
Do not take Holy Gun. Ever. It's awful.
You are vastly better just being a Paladin who uses a gun. Especially if you don't need to spend a Feat on said gun.
One last thought have you considered Holy Gun? Its a gun using healer with a few divine spells or if you don't want the spells you can also take Warrior of the Holy light which gives you some extra healing options in place of magic.Do not take Holy Gun. Ever. It's awful.
You are vastly better just being a Paladin who uses a gun. Especially if you don't need to spend a Feat on said gun.
I suggested it before i read it properly.
Ok the ability to use grit you won't get for 9 levels is a little stupid i'll grant you.
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I suggested it before i read it properly.
Ok the ability to use grit you won't get for 9 levels is a little stupid i'll grant you.
Eh, you technically get 1 Grit from Amateur Gunslinger. The big problem is that you trade Smite Evil, which gives a huge bonus to your AC, to hit, and damage for an entire fight vs. a particular target for a power that only gives a damage boost, only on a single shot, and the damage boost isn't even any bigger.
It's like trading Heroism for a spell that fives you +2 damage on one attack.
Hmm, I know there's an alchemist discovery that lets you attach a bomb to an arrow and shoot it. Maybe ask your DM if you'd be allowed to use that to essentially make custom rounds for your gun? That said, Alchemist is pretty much the king of non-obviously magical healing.
Hmm, I know there's an alchemist discovery that lets you attach a bomb to an arrow and shoot it. Maybe ask your DM if you'd be allowed to use that to essentially make custom rounds for your gun? That said, Alchemist is pretty much the king of non-obviously magical healing.
this one? My alchy has it.
Prerequisite: Alchemist 4
Benefit: As a standard action, the alchemist can infuse a single arrow, crossbow bolt, or one-handed firearm bullet with the power of his bomb, load the ammunition, and shoot the ranged weapon. He must be proficient with the weapon in order to accomplish this. When the infused ammunition hits its target, it deals damage normally and detonates as if the alchemist had thrown the bomb at the target. If the explosive missile misses, it does not detonate.
it's what I was going to suggest. Just play very martial and use your extracts just on remove disease and such. Heck multi class ranger, or gunslinger.
Ranger/Alchemist use the archer combat style if your GM allows it to apply to guns.
Also I give them props for using history as inspiration. I'm currently running a Weird War II campaign.
I initially didn't think that the Alchemist would fit, then the Chirurgeon was pointed out to me. That seems to fit pretty well. Am I missing any obvious downsides?
I think the alchemist would fit. If you don't want bombs just take the vivisectionist archetype. So you don't have to deal with bombs but can say that your knowledge of anatomy let's you hit where it hurts (sneak attack)
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I initially didn't think that the Alchemist would fit, then the Chirurgeon was pointed out to me. That seems to fit pretty well. Am I missing any obvious downsides?
Nope. Chirurgeon's are cool.
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None that I see - I recommend stacking the chirurgeon and vivisectionist archetypes (they don't overlap at all, thus are a legal combination). The anatomy knowledge (sneak attack) is an awesome fit for a doctor, whereas bombs are not necessarily.
If you don't need to stock up solely on gun feats, and plan on having a decent Charisma, Dazzling Display with your gun has a good frontier feel (twirling your gun around to Intimidate foes definitely fits the doctor's Hippocratic oath bit).
If you are starting out at level 3 or more, you wouldn't even need a good wisdom potentially, as you could use Knowledge (nature) instead of the Heal skill to reflect your medicinal training. Or you could play that your character just isn't good at field medicine after school, and it takes him awhile to get the hang of roughing it.
It's not really the bombs that are a problem, it is the unnatural mutations with mutagens and extra arms and things like that. But it should be easy enough to just pass over those for things that are less "gross".
None that I see - I recommend stacking the chirurgeon and vivisectionist archetypes (they don't overlap at all, thus are a legal combination). The anatomy knowledge (sneak attack) is an awesome fit for a doctor, whereas bombs are not necessarily.
If you don't need to stock up solely on gun feats, and plan on having a decent Charisma, Dazzling Display with your gun has a good frontier feel (twirling your gun around to Intimidate foes definitely fits the doctor's Hippocratic oath bit).
If you are starting out at level 3 or more, you wouldn't even need a good wisdom potentially, as you could use Knowledge (nature) instead of the Heal skill to reflect your medicinal training. Or you could play that your character just isn't good at field medicine after school, and it takes him awhile to get the hang of roughing it.
Great suggestions! I will give a try and see how it works out.
If you focus on modifying the bomb feature of the Alchemist with discoveries you could describe them as dynamite/grenades which were surprisingly common especially for bushwhackers. And I could have sworn that the vivisectionist and the chirurgeon overlap... guess not...
Though the vivisectionist feels off with the tortuous transformation as it doesn't fit the theme Though it could be related to his 'past misdeeds'.
Also props on the courage not many people would be willing to use a name so stained in American history. As Dr. Allen Cochrane done some horrendous things during the 1800's... or is that who your character is based on?
Actually I am helping a friend with the build, the actual character concept is not mine. Here is the full background that she wrote up for the character:
Dr. Thomas "Archie" Cochrane
The Clan Cochrane is a proud and well established family, becoming the Earls of Dundonald in 1669. Although frequently distinguished in matters of the military and politics, they are also curious and keen witted sending many sons to university.
Twin boys, Archibald and Thomas Cochrane, both attended the famed medical school at the University of Edinburgh. Archibald, the eldest, was slated to be the 9th Earl of Dundonald while the family would support the burgeoning medical practice of the younger Dr. Thomas. Many thought it was a shame since Archie was obviously the better gifted and dedicated physician. Tragedy struck the family in 1868 shortly after their graduation when it was discovered Thomas bought many of his practice cadavers from Irish immigrants living in the squalor of the West Port. Rumors quickly spread that this was another rash of the "Burke and Hare" type murders that brought down Dr. Robert Knox forty years earlier.
Rather than setting up a medical practice in Edinburgh, Thomas followed his childhood friend John Stuart Forbes across the Atlantic. Forbes himself had run into trouble in Edinburgh over unpaid debts. Together they eventually joined the 7th Cavalry, E Company under General Custer. Forbes, who signed the muster role as John Stuart Hiley, died at Little Big Horn in a hail of bullets and arrows while taking up a defensive "skirmish line." Although the Sioux and Cheyenne had stripped the dead, making identification difficult, a board of survey was appointed to take an inventory of their property. In Hiley's trunk was found a letter from his mother, a noble woman (indicating the true family name of Forbes), that the "problem" back home has been taken care of, his return to Edinburgh should be immediate. The letter's date was just 10th of June, 1876.
The muster roles for the 7th Cavalry show a Thomas Conlan of Ayrshire whom many called "Archie" but no Thomas Cochrane. Oddly, Tom Conlan was accounted deceased at Little Big Horn. Thomas "Archie" Cochrane seems to have left the cavalry during the inquiry in the wake of Little Big Horn.
He has spent the past year trying to forget the horrors of Little Big Horn and finally put to good use his medical education. He's worked among the various Indian tribes as well as for the citizens of the CSA and USA. He does not make a judgment on politics before healing. He is noted, though, as knowing how to use a revolver when someone's actions must inevitably lead to the forfeiture of life.
"Archie" stands about 6 feet, of medium build, with sandy hair and long sideburns. His Scottish accent tends to be stronger after drinking.
The odd thing is the physical description fits Dr. Allen Cochran to a "t"... except the hair... if he was Scottish royalty he most likely would have Irish ancestry as well leading to a reddish toned hair color. Though it might fade to a strawberry blonde. Especially if this is around the time period you mentioned.
Look into the real Dr. Cochran. He might inspire you. Though I would believe the man responsible for the first recorded "zombies" might be a bit more evil than what would be liked.
Hmm what about Cavalier/Alchemist? Or maybe a Cavalier/Gunslinger with the heal skill. Heck a gunslinger with a dip into Cleric with Brew Potions could make for a old fashioned 'snake oil' type traveling medicine man. Though a gunslinger with a few Alchemist levels would get a similar feel and can add some wild west style bonuses such as dynamite-esque bombs. Or you can add in the two archetypes and get a doctor with a slight dark past or dark secret.