Welcome to the latest installment of "Who Would Win?"
THE MATCH-UP
Batman (Bruce Wayne) vs. Doctor Victor Von Doom
In this thread we will be discussing a hypothetical scenario pitting the two greatest masterminds that the world has ever known against one another. Assume that the battle takes place in and around Gotham City. This battle should take into account both physical and mental comparison. This is more than a battle in Gotham, this is a battle for control of Gotham City itself.
No-one can help Batman. No Robin, no Nightwing, no Justice League... and absolutely no Oracle! Just as Batman shall receive no help, Doom will be permitted no "alliances." Making robots is practically one of Doom's powers, though - so robotic minions are in.
Who would win?
Daron Woodson
Abandoned Arts
I Bet the fanboys will soon arrive to smite Doom.
But that doesn't mean Batman automaticlly wins. It just means people will whine if you say he doesn't. As for my own answer, I'd say it's really hard to tell, though Doom has an advantage or two (the armor and just as much tricks up his sleeve as Batman) that might decide the match.
Batman would win because that's how the writers would play it out.
Everything else being equal high magic should trump agility, but batman often outwits and triumps over those that are tremendously more powerful than he is. That is basically one of his powers.
So in "reality" Doom would probably win, but it's not reality so Batman would win. He's "the chosen one."
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A note: I know "Batman always wins" is a popular opinion, but I'd just like to make it clear that this match-up is - in my mind - entirely one-sided. Bruce would prove a worthy opponent, but Victor would win. Doom is Batman, but with fewer rules and more toys.
Don't get me wrong, nobody is a bigger Bat-fan than I... but Bruce doesn't stand a chance against Doom. Victor has successfully taken over the world and then given it back out of boredom. Twice. I think that Batman would be one of those rare opponents that earns no small measure of Doom's respect - but Victor is the superior power.
If Bane could beat Batman, then Doom could do it.
Daron Woodson
Abandoned Arts
-Doom is a SUPER character
-Batman is just a dude. A strong, athletic dude with nice toys. Not sure why this match was ever presented.
-Batman versus the Punisher would make sense. Dpening on the Doom you use, he'd go from difficult to downright impossible to hurt without using HE-AT rounds.
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@AA: Kudos on a well thought out and balanced comment. I approve.
I submit the answer from 8 Bit Theatre.
Batman would beat Dr. Doom in whatever scheme he had unleashed, however Doom does not reveal himself even in folly without it being part of a greater plan.
Even as Bats takes him down, the entire scenario allowed Doom to move another piece in place for some ulterior motive.
Advantage: Doom.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I submit the answer from 8 Bit Theatre.
Batman would beat Dr. Doom in whatever scheme he had unleashed, however Doom does not reveal himself even in folly without it being part of a greater plan.
Even as Bats takes him down, the entire scenario allowed Doom to move another piece in place for some ulterior motive.
Advantage: Doom.
So the real battle would be Doom vs. Xanatos?
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So the real battle would be Doom vs. Xanatos?I submit the answer from 8 Bit Theatre.
Batman would beat Dr. Doom in whatever scheme he had unleashed, however Doom does not reveal himself even in folly without it being part of a greater plan.
Even as Bats takes him down, the entire scenario allowed Doom to move another piece in place for some ulterior motive.
Advantage: Doom.
That would be a good battle. How about a villain free-for-all?
Dr. Doom
David Xanatos
Ra's al Ghul
Vandal Savage
Lex Luthor
and...eh the Red Skull.
personally my favorite combat is Ra's vs Savage. Two immortals playing chess with a world...
Doom, as stated. Batman would get his city back eventually. Or not, if his constant attempts at rebellion keep Doom entertained.
Giving up might be his only way to win, and when has Batman ever given up?
many of the vilians mentioned (luther, savage, Xanatos) aren't that impressive by themselves. Their strengths lies is setting up the board in their favor. They're mostly strategists and not fighters. So in a 1V1 fight they generally lose. However as part of a grand game, they win.
This one has to be a joke: Doom. No question.
Batman will appear to have the lead for a while with his mind games.
And then it will turn out to be a self-destructing Doombot.
Just wait until A Man in Black gets here.
Daron Woodson
Abandoned Arts
Doom. No contest. Even if Batman was "right in front of Doom" how could he even be sure it was actually Doom and not a Doombot. And Doom controlled the Universe not just the planet...twice.
Pyrrhic Victory for both - both die, permanently.
This is a ridiculous contest. A mighty foe he may be, but he is still just a man... where I have held absolute power in my hands,
Thanos.
Does Doctor Doom still owe Luke Cage $200?
Because if so, Victor has enough problems on his plate as it is before Bats gets involved.
~laughter~
All Doom has to do is go back in time and save Wayne's family and Batman ceases to exist.
nope, batman's already back in the past. Waiting for him.
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Doom's not really that much different. He's a normal with powered armor, and a bunch of robots. Batman once built a set of powered armor to challenge Superman, and if he is on a weird enough kick, He'll either build robots. OR CONVERT THE ENTIRE POPULATION OF THE PLANET INTO OMACS.
Doom is equal in intellect to Reed Richards, equal in technical abilities to Tony Stark, and equal in mastery of sorcery to Stephen Strange. He's capable of feats that no other contemporary human in the Marvel universe has accomplished, such as curing Ben Grimm and designing a working time-travel device. He's developed the ability to swap minds with someone via eye contact. Even when stripped of his armor, he's a very capable combatant...he once killed a lion with his bare hands. He has all the wealth and resources of being the absolute monarch of Latveria, one of the most prosperous countries in Europe.
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Writers vary. In any "fair" match-up, I'd give the advantage to Doom.
Batman:
Strength: peak human
Dexterity: near peak human
Constitution: near peak human
Intelligence: genius
Wisdom: exceedingly high, unbreakable will
Charisma: high
skills: world's greatest detective, among world greatest fighters, high tactical acumen
equipment: vehicles, explosive boomerangs, utility belt
resources: billionaire
disadvantages: I'm an orphan who had to make my own way in the world with just a few billion dollars and a loyal butler
enemies: Joker, Penguin, Bane, Ra's al Ghul
Doctor Doom (in armor):
Strength: superhuman (20 tons, more?)
Dexterity: average
Constitution: superhuman
Intelligence: smartest human ever (or is Richards)
Wisdom: exceedingly high
Charisma: high
skills: world's greatest inventive scientist, powerful magic-user, exchanges minds with others (which combined with science makes Doom immortal)
equipment: nuclear powered titanium battlesuit, shrink ray, enlarge ray, robot army, time and space platform
resources: country of Latvia, super science
disadvantages: I'm an orphan who had to make my own way in the world from nothing; so I've decided to conquer it
enemies: Fantistic Four, the assembled Avengers, Galactus, the Beyonder, Squirrel Girl
Doom is... equal in mastery of sorcery to Stephen Strange.
I'm not a big comics fan but, as I recall, Dr. Strange was the top occultist in this plane of existence. Am I wrong on that?
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Dude, Xanatos' mere existence is simple a small part of one of Doom's plans.
I did forget Batman's actual super-power though: Dude's the most ridiculous Mary Sue that's every been conceived. There are canon Batman plots that would make the author of "My Immortal" blush.
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Doom is... equal in mastery of sorcery to Stephen Strange.I'm not a big comics fan but, as I recall, Dr. Strange was the top occultist in this plane of existence. Am I wrong on that?
Much of Strange's power was in the artifacts that abandoned him when he lost his "Sorcerer Supreme" status.
Also, an interesting side-note: The contest that Strange won to gain that title in the first place also included Doom as a participant. And his sole goal in participating was to come in 2nd, so that the winner would owe him a favor (don't ask me, them's the rules, I guess). Anyhow, the favor ended up being Strange helping Doom to free his mother's soul from Mephisto.
Well, my assumption would be that we are taking every hero at the height of their power not at the most recent turn in their career, right? Otherwise, this thread becomes academic because Batman was, at some point, left crippled by Bane and retired. So Dr. Doom vs paraplegic Batman is a no brainer.
So Doom at his height (magically speaking) vs Strange at his (fans seem to refer to this as Classic Strange)... is a different game I'm thinking. Doing a little net search on the subject, I came up with a couple of interesting bits.
A quote by Strange when he beat Dormmamu:
"Dr.Strange, Sorcerer Supreme. Master of the Mystic arts...which part of this implies I have an equal?"
There was a reference I saw in passing, from a fan who didn't cite a source that had Strange commenting on Doom that he is 'a very powerful magician'. The point being made was powerful doesn't mean 'equal'.
Sorry to throw a tangent in the thread. Feel free to return to your battle. :)
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Wasn't Doom once defeated by Squirrel Girl? Yeah, I have to give this one to Bats.
Whether this is awesome or obnoxious depends on how much of a fan boy you are, but in several incarnations Batman has defeated being of near-godlike ability. (He defeated Darkseid, for eff's sake!) He'd find a way to beat Doom.
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Wasn't Doom once defeated by Squirrel Girl? Yeah, I have to give this one to Bats.
Whether this is awesome or obnoxious depends on how much of a fan boy you are, but in several incarnations Batman has defeated being of near-godlike ability. (He defeated Darkseid, for eff's sake!) He'd find a way to beat Doom.
Doom regularly walks up to beings of near-godlike abilities and takes their powers away.
Batman's last encounter with Darkseid is a perfect example of his Mary Sue powers. Only two beings in the DC universe have ever survived being hit with the Omega Sanction. One was Darkseid's own son, who's power specifically was that he was immune to the Omega Sanction. The other was Batman, who survived because...um...because...
....because he makes Ebony Dark’ness Dementia Raven Way look tame.
And you underestimate Squirrel Girl...she's also defeated Thanos, for eff's sake. :P
Batman whispers two words to dr doom.
Squirrel. Girl.
Dr Doom has an aneurysm and keels over dead.
The thing about Batman is that he is like a wizard. Against an enemy of equal or higher level it all depends on preparations.
Random encounter, with just their skills and what they have on them? Doom wins. Handily. Curbstomp, b!tch.
If there are plans and plots and the Bat knows he will have to face Doom at some point, he will load for bear. Doom will see his plans fall around his ears like a castle of cards and when he confronts the Bat, the Bat will do what he does when Darkseid or other heavy weights come calling. He'll call Superman. Cause rules are for people who don't have WMDs as close friends. Then he will use Supes distraction to whip out a Waynetech extra strong EMP gun and a scroll of Antimagic Field courtesy of Zatanna or Doctor Fate and make Doom a powerless guy in a too heavy armor. Then he knocks Doom in a single punch and Doom spends the rest of his life yelling BATMAN!!! instead of RICHARDS!!!
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If they meet randomly: Doom annihilates Batman.
If they both have time to plan: Doom annihilates Batman.
If Doom gets time to plan, but Batman doesn't: Doom annihilates Batman.
If Batman gets time to plan, but Doom doesn't: Doom defeats Batman with more trouble.
By the way...single punch? Doom took out a goddamn lion barehanded. Stripped of all resources, armor, and magic; and thrown into a steel cage with Batman, I'd still put my money on Doom.
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Hmm... I feel that giving Doom access to his Doombots would be too much of an advantage. Then again, Batman know Gotham like the back of his hand, so that gives him a pretty big home-field advantage. I'm going to assume that they both have the same amount of prep-time here, with Batman having access to all the technology in his cave.
I'm gonna say Batman.
Bruce wouldn't be stupid enough to take on Doom and his army of robots in a head-on assault. He would use guerrilla tactics and keen observation of his foe while trying to determine where the REAL Doom resides. The home-field advantage would make capturing the Dark Knight almost impossible. Also, keep in mind that Doom's weakness has always been his ego. He's fighting, essentially, a man in a bat costume. Doom is a dictator who fights the world's smartest man and three other of the world's most powerful heroes on a regular basis. There's NO WAY he wouldn't underestimate Batman, and Bruce would use this to his advantage. It would be the battle to end ALL battles, but i think Batman would succeed in the end, though probably at great cost, as I'm sure most of Gotham (if not all) would be destroyed in the process. All-in-all, Batman might not even consider it a true victory due to the price he paid for it. It might even cause him to break his "no kill" rule.
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Imagine them in their final confrontation, laying out the plans, contingency plans, backup plans, Xanatos Gambits, counter-plans, and plots to each other.
I imagine it would look a bit like Calvinball.
If they meet randomly: Doom annihilates Batman.
If they both have time to plan: Doom annihilates Batman.
If Doom gets time to plan, but Batman doesn't: Doom annihilates Batman.
If Batman gets time to plan, but Doom doesn't: Doom defeats Batman with more trouble.
By the way...single punch? Doom took out a g&&%~$n lion barehanded. Stripped of all resources, armor, and magic; and thrown into a steel cage with Batman, I'd still put my money on Doom.
Yes, no, yes, no. Doom killed a lion barehanded? Batman makes a point of punching godlike beings every month. Doom wants to take the power from godlike beings? Batman is offered that kind of power and refuses because he doesn't need it.
Cracked.com knows all this stuff.
Doom is screwed. Because Doom always loses. He is a defeatist, and if he ever had a chance to actually win, he would subconsciously hobble himself because he can't brood and stew in his funk like Doom needs to do if he actually won at anything.
Batman, on the other hand, always wins. It's a physical law.
Doom is all those things. The only reason Doom loses is because he is considered a villain while Batman is a "hero". Seriously the only difference between the two is somewhere down the line Batman decided to stop being such an evil bastard and Doom remained the same.
Doom is not going to beat Batman in a physical fight.
All Batman has to do is neutralize his armor, which, by god, the PUNISHER managed to do, and Doom is done. Portable EMP for the win.
And Batman can make armor that can tussle with Superman, it's just that he doesn't usually deal with that crowd.
Doom's biggest advantage is that he is a practicing spellcaster. He's not powerful in raw strength, but he's knowledgeable, which is its own strength.
Batman has a broad array of skills that Doom does not, especially in the area of stealth.
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As for intellect, Doom is #2 in most categories in the Marvel universe. Richards is smarter then him, because Reed can be the smartest person in the whole Marvel universe. That whole stretching the brain thing.
In HIS OWN area, Tony Stark is better then Doom. Doom, however, is gonzo better in genetics, biology, and non-engineering disciplines. Tony Stark is the smartest non-enhanced human on the planet.
And Doom, unlike the other two, is a spellcaster.
==Aelryinth