Shield Slam + Close Weapon Training

[scerlocchius]

I know in case of Shield Slam you make a free bull rush substituting your attack roll for the combat maneuver check adding the bonuses from Improved/Greater Bull Rush.
But what about Weapon Training - Close bonus to combat maneuver checks?

for instance, attack roll for hitting:
12 - dice
+4 - strenght
+6 - BAB
+1 - Weapon Training Close bonus on attack
23 - Attacking TOTAL

while attack roll for bull rushing;
23 - Attacking TOTAL
+2 - Improv. Bull Rush
+1 - Weapon Training Close bonus on Combat Maneuver Checks
26 - Bull Rushing TOTAL

is it right?

[Dan E]

Nope. You need to be very careful about which bonuses apply to CM checks and which don't as bonuses to CMD are similarly limited.

In this case shield slam provides you with the check but you don't technically bulls rush with the shield so the weapon training bonus would not apply.

[scerlocchius]

ok, thank you!
so the right Bull rushing Total is 25, isn't it?

[Rasmus Wagner]

The way I read Shield Slam, there is absolutely zero recalculation. The actual result of the attack roll is the final result for the bull rush.

[DracoDruid]

That's how I read it too.

You use the result of your Shield attack roll as the result for your Bull Rush maneuver.

So after hitting with a shield, simply compare your attack roll result with the opponent's CMD. If you beat it, you bull rush, if not, you simply bashed him.

[scerlocchius]

see this old discussion:

http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz1saz?Shield-SlamImproved-Bull-RushGreater-Bull- Rush#0

in effect, improved/greater bull rush speak about bonus on "checks made to bull rush a foe"...not on making a bull rush combat maneuver

[Rasmus Wagner]

scerlocchius wrote:

see this old discussion:

http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz1saz?Shield-SlamImproved-Bull-RushGreater-Bull- Rush#0

in effect, improved/greater bull rush speak about bonus on "checks made to bull rush a foe"...not on making a bull rush combat maneuver

..."Substituting your attack roll for the combat maneuver check". ImpBR adds to dice rolls to BR, and you're not making one of those.

But you're going to argue this to get your bonus no matter what I say, aren't you?

[scerlocchius]

Rasmus Wagner wrote:

But you're going to argue this to get your bonus no matter what I say, aren't you?

no, i only want to understand the way shield slam works

i don't want to take feats of no-use (like improved/greater bull rush according to your reading) or to misunderstand the use of weapon training!

[Nicos]

He adds his weapon training to the attack role, i do not see why that bonus would not add to the bull rush attempt.