If that is indeed what the feat does (there's been some discussion), it's approximately equivalent to the Toughness feat.
If you don't care about skill points then you are effectively only getting the toughness feats so now the question becomes does your build require toughness.
If you don't care about hp enough to take toughness then you have to decide if it is worth a feat to get the extra skill points.
If I am playing a class such as a ranger or inquisitor that is expected to be skilled, and be in the middle of combat the feat is much more attractive.
I wouldn't call it overpowering at all though even though you can trade either one in for other class point features. It gives more options, but I would not call it a must have feat. It is more like a "very nice to have feat". I will probably look at some of my older builds to see how much better they get with it.
I can think of more characters that would benefit from bonus feat more than from taking 1 skill point and 1 hit point per level as favored class bonus. Fast Learner is nice for certain characters but not great overall.
Think of it like this almost every player I know would trade a skill point a level for a bonus feat at first level, a lot of them would trade -1 hit points a level for the same thing. So yeah I don't think I will ever see this feat chosen at my table. Too many good feats to take, especially at first level.
Not everyone lives to see 2nd level; so adding +1 skill point per level is theoretically nice, but not very nice at 1st level when you're squishy. Toughness is a better buy; it's front loaded and scales by level, and isn't restricted by Favored Class. If you just want skill points and want to keep the class +1 hp per level, then it might be worth taking, but it sure isn't overwhelmingly good.
Because you don't need the extra skill points?
Seriously, the feat is mechanically almost identical to Toughness. At the end of the day, either feat leaves you with 1 extra skill and hitpoint every time you gain a level in your favored class. Except that Fast Learner is strictly worse, since it doesn't get the front loading of Toughness, it only applies to your favored class, and doesn't allow you to take 2 hitpoints instead a hitpoint and a skillpoint if you want to. The only time it would different from Toughness would be if you wanted a skill point and an alternate class award, but the way it is written I'm not convinced that is an option. I guess you can stack them, but I don't think I've ever heard someone say "Man, I wish I could take Toughness twice..."
Mechanically, it is only superior to taking the toughness feat if you actually intend to take the toughness feat and stack it on top of the bonus hp from the favoured class bonus, AND also want the extra skill points. It's a pretty nice option if you like your hit points and skill points, but it's not for everyone.
Edit: Dammit, ninja-ed by Mort by TWENTY-FOUR SECONDS. =p
Toughness is STRICTLY superior if you are multiclassing.
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Main reason I would see it as either a fairly high level feat, or if you want to get the hit point or skill point in addition to the alternate favored class bonus.
Main thing is it costs a feat, so only for my 12th level PC is it being seriously considered, and that, mainly, is to add a bunch of CMD vs Sunder & Disarm for his longbow...
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I guess you can stack them, but I don't think I've ever heard someone say "Man, I wish I could take Toughness twice..."
I've personally heard "Hey, can I take Toughness as my 1st, 3rd, 5th, and 7th level feats?"
So I guess there's a niche that wants it.
A small niche with odd priorities.
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I guess you can stack them, but I don't think I've ever heard someone say "Man, I wish I could take Toughness twice..."I've personally heard "Hey, can I take Toughness as my 1st, 3rd, 5th, and 7th level feats?"
So I guess there's a niche that wants it.
A small niche with odd priorities.
Staying alive isn't that odd a priority.
Who wants to take toughness 4 times? I really can't envision the character on whom it would be the ideal choice unless it was maybe an arcane caster but even they have other options which are at least as good if not better.
It was a witch, and the player was fairly new to RPGs at the time she asked that. I directed her to some better options in response.
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TO TAKE ALL THE SKILLS!
Wasting feats on more hitpoints instead of better options is pretty odd.
I took Toughness twice (at 1st level)! In 3.0. My Cleric had CON10 and those extra 6 hit points saved my life a bunch of times (and back then it was +3 hit points and that was all).
Yes, it sucked at higher level, when those feats would have been mechanically more powerful spent elsewhere. But I never would have gotten to that point without the two Toughness feats.
Edit: DISREGARD. Didn't read the last sentence thoroughly
Also becuase of the 13 INT requirement. As a human I get bonus skill points, and as a result rarely need more than 10 INT on classes like Sorcerer, Barbarian, Ranger, Druid, and others.
Anyone know if its retroactive?
Also seems to be toughness if you've always gotten the skill point.
I want to build an Int 18 human Rogue with this feat now...
I will have ranks in EVERYTHING!
Anyone know if its retroactive?
Also seems to be toughness if you've always gotten the skill point.
Everything in Pathfinder that has to do with character creation is retroactive, unless it specifically states otherwise. Developers have made it clear that this was their intent.
Just about the only thing I'd consider taking this on is a Con-crazy Summoner Hell-bent on being the biggest possible sack of hit points for her eidolon, taking both the extra hit points for herself and her eidolon. Or maybe if you really want extra skill points on top of whatever your class-specific special is.
Hm... I wonder if you could use it to boost two different energy resistances with the Paladin bonus? Eh, probably not.
It isn't just a feat, it is a feat at 1st level when you are feat starved and could really use it.
Early feats mean you get a head start on feat chains, meaning you get things sooner.
Seems a fair trade to me.
But toughness gives you 3 hit points right away, I would rather have that at 1st level.
I want to build an Int 18 human Rogue with this feat now...
I will have ranks in EVERYTHING!
You can get it without the feat, you get the SAME number of skill ranks you reagularly would, then you ALSO get HP's.
This feat is terrible, your bonus is always the lesser of your choices, it does NOT double your perfered choice.
I would only take this Feat if I really had no other usages for Feats, AND I already was taking Toughness.
Really, that places it pretty low on the Feat Totem Pole.
I would only take this Feat if I really had no other usages for Feats, AND I already was taking Toughness.
Really, that places it pretty low on the Feat Totem Pole.
Isn't being low on a totem pole a good thing?
not those totem poles ;-P
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The 13 Int requirement rules this out for me. The best use of the bonus skill point is so I can drop Int to boost other attributes, imho.
This feat is awesome for all those Int based tanks that also need skill points!
You would only take it for the skill points or if the hp from toughness aren't enough for you. It's kind of nice but in the end it's not worth it for my on most occasions.
If I want a skilled character I'll play a class with lot of skill points, being a human already give me more sp and if I want more sp I use my favored class. If with such character I want more hp too I can always take toughness (for this character is better, since I can multiclass more easily).
If I want a PC with loads of hp I'll for for a full bab class and put my favorite class bonus in hp. For such character skills are probably not very important, especially since as a human I already get 1 more sp per level.
Honestly, the only one I can see taking this often are fighters: they have a feat to burn, need hp and have so little sp that even 1 more per level may make a difference.
Because you want a different feat?
Honestly, if getting more skill and hit points are that powerful, the Barbarian class must be much more powerful than the Fighter class.
Isn't it?
because I play a feat starved sorcerer who much rather likes his spells known anyway?
It's a great feat for some, but really not for everyone.
I could see myself taking it for Wizard or Sorcerer, as they don't really have any must have feats early unless you wanted to start stocking on on metamagics you won't be ale to use for a few levels. A few more hit points for already squishy classes plus another bonus skill point per level is nice. Would probably benefit Sorc more since Int isn't a high priority stat, and its still nice for Wizards who'd like to have all their knowledges plus a little extra.
Don't most people who take the feat do so as a prerequisite?
The follow up feats (from memory):
Fast Learner: Get both +1 HP and +1 Skill rank from Favored Class
Improvisation: +2 bonus on any skill with no ranks. Can make any skill check untrained.
Forgotten Name: Bonus on untrained skills increases to +4, and something else?
Kind of odd that it's built around someone getting more skill ranks (from FC, and from int 13) but then benefits from not spending them.
I guess a fighter would have... [2+Int(13)+Human] four ranks per level. (Less, if he trades away Skilled for something) If every level he wants to max, say, Climb, Intimidate, Ride and Swim, then after three feats he gets the same effect as having every skill as a class skill and a rank in each of them.
Outside of PFS or the odd skill-based campaign, I don't see it being very popular.
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It's just a worse toughness feat. If you take toughness, you still get hp when you multiclass, can take the hp + alt class progression (instead of skill point), can take hp + hp (if you took toughness this is probably what you wanted in the first place). You even lose the little nacho of 3 hp right away.
This is a cute feat for a human that already has toughness and wants more skill points (I say skill points because again, most people take hp as their favored class). Very narrow; and even if you want it, do you want it "feat" bad? Feats are a very limited resource.
This is a cute feat for a human that already has toughness and wants more skill points (I say skill points because again, most people take hp as their favored class).
Really? In all my groups it's always skill point, except for one person who was playing an HP-stacked-to-the-moon tank paladin.
Sorceror no way, Human alt favored class ability is an extra spell known which is MUCH better for a sorceror then this.
Forgot about that new favored class option, I think because its so insanely OP that I think my DM would laugh at me if I asked if I could take it.