Can a person with darkvision point out the location of a stealthed character to those without darkvision?


Rules Questions


Very soon my party will be entering caverns and will have at best the aid of two characters who have darkvision, will those two be able to point out foes to the rest? The party will most likely be using torches and lanterns to light the way, but there will still be considerable dim light in the area.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

maybe give them a +2 bonus since they know what they're looking for w/ their allies shouting out , unless the ally can say he's right in front of me or he's right to my left, its hard to shout "he's in that square" , "he's 10 ft out at my 6 o'clock", might help pinpoint squares, but would still have total concealment if they couldn't see them.


My wizard with his bat familiar spent time in between sessions training, having the bat call out

"12 o clock, 15 feet"

"8 : 30, 50 feet"

If the party has been together a while its something they should work on.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

i'd still make a dc 15 perception check or something to locate the square. hustling over 15 feet while blind in one direction and attacking can be disorienting.


IF it is a druid with darkvision then you can have them use the faearie fire spell.

Sovereign Court

Well Darkvision only helps if they are hiding in just the darkness as opposed to having and sort of cover or other concealment, so don't assuming that characters with darkvision are going to be able to see anything anyway.

Said characters could call out the direction and so forth of something they see. If the other characters are able to use the information effectively they can do something with it, but it wouldn't say negate the penalties for not being able to see a target themselves. It could negate an ambush or surprise situation which is handy.


best they have a light source if they don't all have darkvision, not like its hard to have light in PF.

glitterdust would also be useful for outlining targets both hidden, concealed and or invisible

by the way its worth mentioning darkvision does not negate stealth, they still need to make a successful perception check to notice stealthed enemies


Thanks for the tips everyone :)

Phasics wrote:

best they have a light source if they don't all have darkvision, not like its hard to have light in PF.

glitterdust would also be useful for outlining targets both hidden, concealed and or invisible

by the way its worth mentioning darkvision does not negate stealth, they still need to make a successful perception check to notice stealthed enemies

It's not about finding ways around it, it's just that the players will most likely try to point out to the others about the location of the creature(s) and I'm not sure on whether it's mechanically possible.

Dark Archive

It's going to differ from GM to GM.

Some will allow it without drawbacks, others will not, and still others will restrict it even more.

Using light isn't always the answer. Light give away your position, and environmentally speaking, it attracts predators.

I would allow people to call out, and then the casters/archers can cast into that square. But they still can't see no matter what. However, a Perception check without sight I would allow. Not sure of the penalties, but I would impose some.


No.

Remember that "turns" within a round are occurring *almost* simultaneously - combatants, for example, are in motion, and the "square" they inhabit is where they happen to be at a moment in time (well, some fraction of six seconds).

I'd allow a general area (he's about ten feet to your right!), but I wouldn't allow for "pinpointing" unless the now-informed character also made a suitable perception check (I'd count the unseen enemy as "invisible" for this purpose).

Obviously, splash damage, area-of-effect attacks and so on would be usable - not arrow-shots or targeted spells.

As always, there may be situational exceptions.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Oils of daylight, people. Oils of daylight.


I would say yes they can tell other PC's what square an enemy is in assuming they can see said enemy. Squares (and hence actual location) are just an abstraction. I wouldn't overcomplicate things for my game. Combats tend to be slow enough as it is. YMMV. Good luck!

Lantern Lodge

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Pinpoint the square yes. Still roll miss chance on attack as per rules when blind.


Keep in mind you still can't target a square with a spell that you do not have line-of-sight to. No casting magic missiles into the darkness and no throwing fireballs either.


Thank you all for the insights, I think I'll have the players without darkvision know the DIRECTION of where the foe is without knowing its exact location.

This is going to be very important for my next session as the party is entering into a cave (this is the first time they're going to be fighting for an extended period of time in a dungeon with no lighting whatsoever (they'll bring lanterns and such, but the enemy can easily attack them from the area of dim light or even further back from darkness)). The aasimar in the party can cast daylight, but she's only getting one casting of it per day (low level party).

Two more questions if you guys don't mind: If a character loses their dexterity to AC, are they susceptible to sneak attacks? Also, if they lose it, do they also lose the modifier to CMD and reflex?


Not all spells require line of sight. Target based spells do. Nothing stop you from throwing fireball into an area you can't see, but it might not be a good idea since the GM would have to house rule the targeting of the square.

If a character loses dex to AC they are susceptible to sneak attack. They also lose that bonus to CMD. They do not lose it to reflex saves however.


Yes they can call out directions to attack. Just remember the target still gets a 50% miss chance due to concealment. After all the attacker can't see his target.

One nasty trick to pull would be to place a monster with sound mimicry into the dark areas. Done right the creature could have the poor characters attacking each other.

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