I have in mind an encounter for a group of 6 PC's who will be level 20 at the time they reach this encounter (25-point buy and at least average WBL if not above), but I am looking for suggestions on who or what to include in the encounter.
The idea is a council of demonic advisors to a demon prince. It would be located in the Abyss. Anticipated EL is 23-24, which means if I want to have 8 enemies they can each be around CR 17-18.
Spoiler:
1. Marilith, CR 17
2. Lich is kind of expected, but something with a twist would be nice
3. Demodand?
4. Rune giant might be kind of neat, perhaps with 1 level of barbarian, CR 18 (scratched, need to replace)
5-8 Thoughts?
Ideally this will be an encounter that's fun for the players and contain an oft-talked-about combat as well. Interesting enemies are equally as important as challenging enemies.
I have no idea what the group might be comprised of at the time the campaign reaches this point. At present they lack a pure arcane caster but have the other bases covered. Thanks!
Edit: scratched #4 as I plan to already include something similar in a prior encounter.
a 5 year old child, to indicate that this particular baddie has in fact read the Evil Overlord List.
lol
Spoiler:
1. Marilith, cr 17
2. Gnome lich vivisectionist/wizard/arcane trickster (need to work up, lich is +2 CR leaving 16 character levels to work with), cr 17
3. Shaggy Demodand, cr 18
4. Succubus battle oracle 14 (possibly sorcerer 14), cr 17
5. Nightcrawler, cr 18
6. Advanced, Giant Gelatinous Cube with enough additional hit dice to make it cr 17 (need to evaluate this versus giving it some class levels)
7. Tiefling monk/ninja, cr 17 (need to think this through)
8. how would you work up a fallen angel?
5. Dhampir antipaladin 19, cr 18 (I have one in mind that I have already introduced in the campaign and I can just say he is much more powerful in the Abyss than in the Prime Material)
6. Forgot to make it fiendish, how silly of me!
7. Tiefling vampire monk sounds cool as hell. I don't have UC either in book form or in HeroLab so may have to skip ninja.
8. For a fallen angel (say an astral deva), would you just convert its holy aspects to unholy, or should it be given a template of some sort? Maybe I will reskin an erinyes devil and give her ranger class levels?
7. Tiefling vampire monk sounds cool as hell. I don't have UC either in book form or in HeroLab so may have to skip ninja.
8. For a fallen angel (say an astral deva), would you just convert its holy aspects to unholy, or should it be given a template of some sort? Maybe I will reskin an erinyes devil and give her ranger class levels?
I could make the Tiefling and the fallen angel for you if you do not mind.
How about an ancient Doppelganger? A 'true' doppelganger so to speak, able to copy any character on the battlefield, employing that person's character sheet as his own, even to the degree that he mimics his/her alignment (so no smite evil if he mimics a good character). He can take on the form of a wizard PC and even have the exact same spells prepared, annoying the wizard by counterspelling like mad, switching to the form of a PC's cleric and healing his allies by either channeling positive energy or using necromantic spells to cast negative energy. You could even place this Doppelganger as having been involved during the course of the campaign with the PCs as having given them quests or someone they spoke to, impossible to even tell he's evil with detection spells. Mechanically speaking though, he has HP of his own rather than that of any one or anything else's, allowing him to even assume weak creatures that have powerful abilities (like pugwampies).
What about a temporarily allied Qlippoth? Officially a member of the Dark eight, but spends the majority of his time opposing and slaughtering demons. He aids the dark eight when powerful HEROES, or do gooders make an appearance. He joins demons to slay mighty heroes who might save the lives of people (with no heroes, people can die a lot easier and faster).
A human animated dracolisk. Picture a huge skeletal dragon with a human suspended within: This creature was a dragon that a human grafted entirely upon herself, when she felt the dragon was dying, even though she was a powerful human, she didn't intend the life of a lich upon herself but had no problem conferring it upon the mad flesh armor she wore around herself now, the only problem was finding out the secrets of a DRAGON'S lichdom. She found powerful allies within the Abyss that did MORE than just grant her outer shell eternal unlife, they also created it in a way that she could continue to function perfectly without switching between control of her body and control of the dragon, they now both act in unison (her casting spells, and IT breathing green flames and lashing out maniacally with it's physical form). The creature now feeds her souls on a constant basis to keep her forever young (mechanically speaking, the dracolisk loses one of the souls it has in storage or which it collects once every round).
7. Tiefling vampire monk sounds cool as hell. I don't have UC either in book form or in HeroLab so may have to skip ninja.
8. For a fallen angel (say an astral deva), would you just convert its holy aspects to unholy, or should it be given a template of some sort? Maybe I will reskin an erinyes devil and give her ranger class levels?
I could make the Tiefling and the fallen angel for you if you do not mind.
That would be great, Nicos. If you don't mind, could you post them on this thread and use spoiler tags? Thanks!
cmastah, interesting thought about the doppelganger and I have used something similar in past campaigns. I'm trying to avoid Dark Tapestry stuff at the moment due to my campaign being on hold and playing in Carrion Crown. The human-animated ravener sounds like a neat encounter in its own right. I will consider that for another portion of the "dungeon." Thanks!
Using HeroLab I tried to create an advanced, fiendish gel cube and advanced its hit dice sufficient to make it CR 17 (per HeroLab at least) and I was completely underwhelmed by it. Frankly, it was nowhere near a CR 17. I will probably add class levels to it as I like the idea of an intelligent, fiendish, gigantic ooze monster silently dripping slime in the corner as it converses telepathically with the other council members. *grin*
But the succubus and marilith are built. They turned out pretty neat.
Using HeroLab I tried to create an advanced, fiendish gel cube and advanced its hit dice sufficient to make it CR 17 (per HeroLab at least) and I was completely underwhelmed by it. Frankly, it was nowhere near a CR 17. I will probably add class levels to it as I like the idea of an intelligent, fiendish, gigantic ooze monster silently dripping slime in the corner as it converses telepathically with the other council members. *grin*
Maybe you need t invent sme new monster, sme brain gel cube, or brain ooze. I would ask Epic meepo for help
Actually, I just created a really cool replacement for the gel cube.
Spoiler:
6. Advanced, Giant, Fiendish Gibbering Mouther Bard (arcane duelist) 13 increased further to gargantuan size. I really like how it turned out. Inspire courage to buff itself and the other council members as well as bladethirst for its attacks.*
*Note that it is a houserule in our games that bards can use multiple uses of bardic performance in a round to "twist" multiple bard abilities ala Everquest bards.
Femanle Tiefling Vampire Monk 4/ Ninja 12
CE or NE Medium undead(augmented)
Init +13; Darkvision 60ft; Perception +30
==================================
DEFENCE
Gear: Agile unholy Amulet of Mighty fist, Cloak of displacement (minor), Ring of protection +2, +2 fire resistance Bracer of armor , Headband of inspired
wisdom +4, Belt of incredible dexterity +4.
SQ: Poison use, Fast movement, Ki pool (magic), slow fall 20 ft., maneuver training, Evasion,Light steps, no trace +4, uncanny dodge,Improved uncanny dodge,
change shape (dire bat or wolf, beast shape II), gaseous form, shadowless, spider climb,
==================================
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Blood Drain (Su)
A vampire can suck blood from a grappled opponent; if the vampire establishes or maintains a pin, it drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution damage.
The vampire heals 5 hit points or gains 5 temporary hit points for 1 hour (up to a maximum number of temporary hit points equal to its full normal hit
points) each round it drains blood.
Change Shape (Su)
A vampire can use change shape to assume the form of a dire bat or wolf, as beast shape II.
Children of the Night (Su)
Once per day, a vampire can call forth 1d6+1 rat swarms, 1d4+1 bat swarms, or 2d6 wolves as a standard action. (If the base creature is not terrestrial, this
power might summon other creatures of similar power.) These creatures arrive in 2d6 rounds and serve the vampire for up to 1 hour.
Create Spawn (Su)
A vampire can create spawn out of those it slays with blood drain or energy drain, provided that the slain creature is of the same creature type as the
vampire's base creature type. The victim rises from death as a vampire in 1d4 days. This vampire is under the command of the vampire that created it, and
remains enslaved until its master's destruction. A vampire may have enslaved spawn totaling no more than twice its own Hit Dice; any spawn it creates that
would exceed this limit become free-willed undead. A vampire may free an enslaved spawn in order to enslave a new spawn, but once freed, a vampire or vampire
spawn cannot be enslaved again.
Dominate (Su)
A vampire can crush a humanoid opponent's will as a standard action. Anyone the vampire targets must succeed on a Will save or fall instantly under the
vampire's influence, as though by a dominate person spell (caster level 12th). The ability has a range of 30 feet. At the GM's discretion, some vampires
might be able to affect different creature types with this power.
Energy Drain (Su)
A creature hit by a vampire's slam (or other natural weapon) gains two negative levels. This ability only triggers once per round, regardless of the number
of attacks a vampire makes.
Gaseous Form (Su)
As a standard action, a vampire can assume gaseous form at will (caster level 5th), but it can remain gaseous indefinitely and has a fly speed of 20 feet
with perfect maneuverability.
Shadowless (Ex)
A vampire casts no shadows and shows no reflection in a mirror.
Spider Climb (Ex)
A vampire can climb sheer surfaces as though under the effects of a spider climb spell.
It result to be a farirly complex being, with a lot of special abilities. I will detail her tactis later.
Femanle Tiefling Vampire Monk 4/ Ninja 12
CE or NE Medium undead(augmented)
Init +13; Darkvision 60ft; Perception +30
==================================
DEFENCE
Gear: Agile unholy Amulet of Mighty fist, Cloak of displacement (minor), Ring of protection +2, +2 fire resistance Bracer of armor , Headband of inspired wisdom +4, Belt of incredible dexterity +4.
SQ: Poison use, Fast movement, Ki pool (magic), slow fall 20 ft., maneuver training, Evasion,Light steps, no trace +4, uncanny dodge,Improved uncanny dodge,
change shape (dire bat or wolf, beast shape II), gaseous form, shadowless, spider climb.
Special: Greater magic fang(+4) casted in her two arms.
==================================
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Blood Drain (Su)
A vampire can suck blood from a grappled opponent; if the vampire establishes or maintains a pin, it drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution damage.
The vampire heals 5 hit points or gains 5 temporary hit points for 1 hour (up to a maximum number of temporary hit points equal to its full normal hit
points) each round it drains blood.
Change Shape (Su)
A vampire can use change shape to assume the form of a dire bat or wolf, as beast shape II.
Children of the Night (Su)
Once per day, a vampire can call forth 1d6+1 rat swarms, 1d4+1 bat swarms, or 2d6 wolves as a standard action. (If the base creature is not terrestrial, this
power might summon other creatures of similar power.) These creatures arrive in 2d6 rounds and serve the vampire for up to 1 hour.
Create Spawn (Su)
A vampire can create spawn out of those it slays with blood drain or energy drain, provided that the slain creature is of the same creature type as the
vampire's base creature type. The victim rises from death as a vampire in 1d4 days. This vampire is under the command of the vampire that created it, and
remains enslaved until its master's destruction. A vampire may have enslaved spawn totaling no more than twice its own Hit Dice; any spawn it creates that
would exceed this limit become free-willed undead. A vampire may free an enslaved spawn in order to enslave a new spawn, but once freed, a vampire or vampire
spawn cannot be enslaved again.
Dominate (Su)
A vampire can crush a humanoid opponent's will as a standard action. Anyone the vampire targets must succeed on a Will save or fall instantly under the
vampire's influence, as though by a dominate person spell (caster level 12th). The ability has a range of 30 feet. At the GM's discretion, some vampires
might be able to affect different creature types with this power.
Energy Drain (Su)
A creature hit by a vampire's slam (or other natural weapon) gains two negative levels. This ability only triggers once per round, regardless of the number
of attacks a vampire makes.
Gaseous Form (Su)
As a standard action, a vampire can assume gaseous form at will (caster level 5th), but it can remain gaseous indefinitely and has a fly speed of 20 feet
with perfect maneuverability.
Shadowless (Ex)
A vampire casts no shadows and shows no reflection in a mirror.
Spider Climb (Ex)
A vampire can climb sheer surfaces as though under the effects of a spider climb spell.
Some Tactics:
She like to kill wizards and sorcerers and dominate fighters and rogues.
1) With gaseous form, vanishing trick and good stealth she can ambush any party.
2) grapple + blood drain =win against casters.
3) against several living opponents she trows a poison bomb a start melee or grapple while his enemies suffocate.
I started by reskinning an erinyes devil and adding in inquisitor levels but now I wonder if he/she isn't a bit much for CR 18? By the creature advancement rules I placed inquisitor levels as non-key so I made it an erinyes inquisitor 15* and it seems quite strong. I'll revisit it to make sure it's not too much. I like the strong ranged aspect, though.
*CR 8 base monster means 9 levels of inquisitor for +4 CR (12 total) and then 6 more levels for CR 18 total = level 15. Sound right?
Regarding the fallen angel...
** spoiler omitted **
I would like to see the final monster, but i hadrly see inquisitor levels as non-key. Inquisitors make good archers and are good in melee. They do not have perfect BAB but have several abilities to compensate.
*CR 8 base monster means 9 levels of inquisitor for +4 CR (12 total) and then 6 more levels for CR 18 total = level 15. Sound right?
Incorrect. CR 8 base means 7 levels for +3~ CR bonus, 8 levels for +8 CR bonus, 15 levels for +15 CR bonus. It's only half until it meets or exceeds their normal CR, and then it goes from half to full. This makes a lot of creatures CRs very weird.
Ice Titan, I have not seen that interpretation of adding non-key levels before, but I'll look in some of the published materials I own to see if there are examples one way or the other. I've always read it as +1 CR per 2 non-key levels until you exceed their base CR then it is +1 CR per level after. That seems more in line with CR values than a huge bump in CR from adding a single level (at the tipping point where you exceed the base CR). Definitely worth investigating, though, as I often build encounters by adding class levels on to monsters. It's important I'm getting it right.
Nicos and Gluttony, I thought of inquisitor as akin to bard (skill focus is their key role) but I agree that adding 15 levels is too much. I'll probably just consider it key and go inquisitor 10.
I need to finalize #2 still (have some thoughts on it but want to consider them), but otherwise I think I'm nearly done. I leveled up the AP last night. Thanks, everyone!
Running this encounter is going to take forever, I realize. Keeping abilities, buffs, debuffs, etc. straight is going to be a major headache. Still, I hope it is fun for the players and for me. Thanks!
Is there a theme related to the demon lord ? I prefer to keep encounters thematic myself and the widely different NPCs do make the encounter slow and confusing to run I am sure. that said a few slightly different/other suggestions :
1) advanced marilith (CR 17)
* with a kalavakus demon liuetenant and four or so half-fiends.
2) Grim Reaper (CR 20)
* minor death servants
3) Vampire anti-paladin (CR 17 ?)
* A dominated nymph named sookie and a boosted nightmare mount.
4) an awakened Demi-lich (CR 18 ?)
5) gibbering mouther (CR 17)
* a number of human child/woman servants, chained to his form, possibly enabling it to drain their lifeforce to empower/heal or shield.
6) Shaggy Demodand, part of an alliance with a certain titan overlord
* a small retinue of lesser demodands (CR 18)
7) Greater Barghest, 'goblin king' sorc 7 Ek 10 or so. (CR 20)
* goblin servants with class levels
8) Succubus Oracle 14 (CR 17)
* Small retinue/harem of 5 Incubi with class levels fighter 4
roughly an encounter CR 24/25 counting the minions, though they will not cooperate fully and might even take the oppurtunity to attack eachother in the confusion that follows, which will downgrade the encounter somewhat.
Is there a theme related to the demon lord ? I prefer to keep encounters thematic myself and the widely different NPCs do make the encounter slow and confusing to run I am sure. that said a few slightly different/other suggestions :
(snip)
roughly an encounter CR 24/25 counting the minions, though they will not cooperate fully and might even take the oppurtunity to attack each other in the confusion that follows, which will downgrade the encounter somewhat.
Bolded part is absolutely true. I had planned on this. They don't work as a unit and are liable to be cowardly when pressed which is probably the only thing saving the PCs from a defeat.
Orcus is the demon lord, so undead elements are important to incorporate. The party gets to face him in the climactic finale.
