Stat substitution


Advice


My search fu has failed me.

Is there a consolidated reference guide for all feats/traits/class abilities/etc that allow stat substitution (e.g. weapon finesse, agile, Sage(Sorcerer archetype that subs Int for Cha), etc) or allows you to add one stat to abilities and skills of another (e.g. Inquisitor's cunning initiative adds Wis to Init, or Kensei(Magus) adds Int to AC)?

That was a bit of a long winded question, but I hope it was clear.

Edit: Ooh, if there isn't a guide, can you list the ones you can think of off the top of your head?


I don't know of a guide for this, but off the top of my (tired) head...

Weapon Finesse feat (Dex to hit with light and some non-light melee weapons)

Dervish Dance feat (Dex to hit & damage with scimitar, only usable for 1h scimitar + empty hand)

Agile Maneuvers feat (Dex for combat maneuvers)

Guided Hand feat (Wis to hit with deity's favored weapon)

Agile property (+1, melee weapons usable with finesse, Dex to hit & damage)

Guided property (+1, Wis to hit & damage)

Sage sorcerer (Int for magic)

Zen Archer monk (wis to hit with bows)

Mysterious Stranger gunslinger (Cha for grit)

Versatile Performance bard (perform for various skills)

Sidestep Secret lore oracle revelation (Cha for AC)

Nature's Whispers nature oracle revelation (Cha for AC)

Wisdom in the Flesh trait (Wis for a Str, Dex, or Con related skill)

I know there's others I've missed, but...they're not coming to mind right now and I don't feel like searching for them at the moment. <_<


I am sure somebody was building one a few months ago on here - or at least asked this question. Give it another search...


The only one missing I can think of is:
Empyreal sorcerer archetype (Wis instead of Cha for spellcasting and sorcerer abilities)

Adding onto what's already there:
Nature's Whispers also lets you sub Cha for Dex to CMD, as well as AC.

Sidestep Secret also lets you sub Cha to all reflex saves, as well as AC.

Because agile weapons let you use dex you can it and certain combat maneuvers that use attack rolls, (I think trip and disarm?) so they're only dex based.

I think there's also something lets you add Str for intimidate checks but I'm not sure off the top of my head.


Aioran wrote:
I think there's also something lets you add Str for intimidate checks but I'm not sure off the top of my head.

You're looking for Intimidating Prowess.


The lore keeper oracle revelation lets you add cha to knowledge skill instead of int


agile only adds to damage if you have Finesse, it does nothing to your to hit chance.


After looking over the comments here and searching the srd, here's the list I ended up with. Sorry for the lack of standard formatting, I got lazy.

conversion inquisition: use wis instead of cha on bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate

heresy inquisition: use wis instead of cha on bluff and intimidate

monk: wis + to ac/cmd

sensei: wis instead of dex/str for attack and cmb/cmd

zen archer: wis instead of dex for bows attack rolls

paladin: divine grace: cha + to saving throws

paladin: smite evil: cha + to attack, ac

paladin: sword of valor, first into battle: cha + to initiative

empyreal (sorc): wis instead of cha for all class abilities

sage (sorc): int instead of cha for all class abilities

gunslinger (mysterious stranger): cha instead of wis for grit points

inquisitor: cunning init: add wis to init

inquisitor, heretic: lore of escape: wis to stealth and bluff

inquisitor, infiltrator: guileful lore: wis to bluff and diplomacy

inquisitor, witch hunter: spell sage: wis to spellcraft

magus, kensei: canny defense: int to ac

magus, kensai: iaijutsu: int to initiative

magus, kensai: critical perfection: int to crit confirm rolls

magus, kensai: superior reflexes: int to attacks of opportunity

magus, iaijutsu focus: add int to damage when opponents flatfooted or during surprise round

oracle, lore, lorekeeper: use cha instead of int on all knowledge checks

oracle, lore, sidestep secret: use cha instead of dex for ac and reflex

oracle, nature, nature's whispers: cha instead of dex on AC and CMD

duelist, canny defense: int to ac

monkey style: add wisdom bonus on acrobatics

monkey moves: add wisdom bonus on climb

guided hand: use wis instead of dex or str on attack rolls

noble scion: use cha instead of dex for initiative

versatile jinxer: use int or wis instead of cha for halfling jinxes

agile maneuvers: use dex instead of str for cmb

dervish dance: use dex instead of str for damage with scimitar

focused shot: add int to damage with bows/xbows

fury's fall: add dex to cmb with trip attacks

intimidating prowess: add str to intimidate

osyluth guile: add cha to ac against one opponent when using total defense or fighting defensively

weapon finesse: use dex instead of str for attack rolls with light weapons

agile weapon mod: use dex for damage on finesse-able weapons

guided weapon mod: use wis instead of str for attack roll and damage on weapons

wisdom in the flesh trait: wis for one str, con, or dex based skill

I figure it'd be nice to have this list up for those classes/builds trying to fix MAD problems. A one or two level dip in a couple of classes offers a number of ways to consolidate stats


Here's a thread about it.

Grand Lodge

So, what stat can be used for the most things?

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

blackbloodtroll wrote:
So, what stat can be used for the most things?

Ok so the most I was able to get in one build is the following:

Oracle (Black-blooded) Levels 1-6:
Level 1 Revelation: Sidestep Secret (Use Cha instead of Dex for AC and Ref saves)
Level 1 Feat: Stoic (Campaign Setting version found here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/local-feats, Use Cha instead of Con for Fort saves)
Level 3 Revelation: Lore Keeper (Use Cha instead of Int for Knowledge checks)
Agent of the Grave 1: Unholy fortitude (Use Cha instead of Con for all subsequent levels' bonus HP)
Antipaladin 1: Smite good 1/day (Add Cha to attack and AP level damage vs. good creature)
Antipaladin 2: Unholy resilience (Add Cha to all saves)
Level 9 feat: Osyluth Guile (+Cha on AC when using defensive fighting or total defense against one enemy, requires Dodge as prerequisite)
Sorcerer (Tattooed Crossblooded (Sanguine/Umbral)) 1: Bloodline arcanas add +1 caster level to necromancy spells and +1 caster level to spells cast in dim light or darkness
Cyphermage 1: Cypher Lore (Insightful Scroll, use Cha to calculate scroll DCs)

That's as far as I got. Can anyone see any other stuff you can add for a Cha-based character? After this, I'd say go back to taking Oracle levels or possibly start taking Divine Scion until level 20.

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