A reimagining of a previous build, I am trying to build an Duergar Heretic Inquisitor of Cixyron who focuses on a single shot with a musket.
As my god grants me proficiency with the musket, I hope to avoid a Gunslinger dip, and attempt a single powerful shot tactic.
This will be a 25 point buy build with all Pathfinder material available.
I am thinking of using a Channel granting Terrain domain to gain Channel Smite and Guided Hand so I can use wisdom for attack rolls.
Another option is to grab a musket with the Guided enchantment, though I would not be able to afford it until around 4th level. I could Craft Magic Arms and Armor to grab it earlier.
Any suggestions?
This sounds fun. Makes me think of the Holy Gun Paladin. I think that Craft Alchemy for cartridges is a really good idea. Too new to this to know what would be best.
Well, I am thinking Vital Strike is a must.
Using the Midnight Stalker feat may be a way to increase damage, though not sure if worth it.
Without gun training you are going to have a hard time avoiding misfires and explosions, and the inquisitor spell list doesn't include make whole so gunsmithing is a high priority feat.
I wonder if your GM will let you use poisonous metal bullets. Although realistically metal toxins are slow acting and wouldn't have noticeable effects in combat, the BBEG dying of cadmium poisoning a week after a TPK would be a sweet revenge.
The Amateur Gunslinger feat can grant me the quick clear deed.
Would that not be better than Gunsmithing?
Also, I could use common craft checks to repair firearms.
cnetarian wrote: Without gun training you are going to have a hard time avoiding misfires and explosions, and the inquisitor spell list doesn't include make whole so gunsmithing is a high priority feat.
I wonder if your GM will let you use poisonous metal bullets. Although realistically metal toxins are slow acting and wouldn't have noticeable effects in combat, the BBEG dying of cadmium poisoning a week after a TPK would be a sweet revenge.
Poisonous metals?
You mean like lead? :D
There are pitted bullets to fill with poison.
Quantum Steve wrote:
Poisonous metals?
You mean like lead? :D
Possibly, but the acute lethal dose is pretty high (about 1g/Kg is roughly where LD20 should be).
I was thinking of "poisonous metals" because it is one of the domains of Cixyron. To my mind "poisonous metals" conjures ( besides the radioactive metals) antimony, arsenic & cadmium - those can kill in single bullet doses. Arsenic & Antimony bullets could kill by the end of the day if they fragment (and they will likely fragment), although it may take longer. Cadmium is more interesting, with simple heat treatment it won't become brittle and will sit as a lump slowly poisoning the victim - the bones become brittle, the victim might become violently insane and after a while the kidney's and liver shut down in a painful slow process.
As for common craft repairing firearms, maybe. the firearms rules specify gunsmithing to repair broken firearms, but that is based upon the idea that guns are rare and unique enough that only gunsmiths have the skills to repair firearms.
There are craft DCs for crafting firearms in Ultimate Combat.
Arsenic is within the available poisons.
Black powder inquisition/domain?
blackbloodtroll wrote: There are craft DCs for crafting firearms in Ultimate Combat.
Arsenic is within the available poisons.
The misfire rules specify 'make whole' or gunsmithing to restore a wrecked firearm. If your musket ever gets wrecked (which will happen without gun training unless you stop using it after a misfire) you won't be able to restore it like a gunslinger could. Tossing a few scrolls of 'make whole' into your cleaning kit should be able to get around that difficulty, now that I think about it.
Yes, arsenic is in the poison rules, but that is ingested arsenic not 'injected at high speed' arsenic. An arsenic bullet would have a longer onset time and would keep on poisoning the victim so forget that one save to cure business. It was only fluff, because I like the idea of slow poisoning to anyone who manages to vanquish you, it fits so nicely with the worshiper of a demon who's domain is poisonous metal. Using a pitted bullet with poison is actually practical especially if you are working with that one big shot.
Being immune to poison would make using poisoned bullets viable, I suppose.
Is this the best way to make the one shot tactic viable?
Georgi Markov was actually killed by a pellet of poison. The precedent is there.
finding a way to get true strike and gravity bow on your list would also help.
Poisoned bullets can increase the effectiveness of most shots although sliver would be better for creatures silver DR & cold iron for those with cold iron DR. Poison is pretty expensive though, but having a few poison, cold iron & silver bullets in your pouch is a good idea.
Bane & judgement of destruction are what make the non-gunslinger musket inquisitor competitive, Vital Strike is what makes it viable. personally I couldn't go with the one shot idea because it means giving up ranged AoOs and I find those too useful, but that's a play-style thing.
Suggestions are hard, it's obvious what to do and it should make an interesting character. Dex & Str aren't as important to this character as it is for most inquisitors since they don't add to damage and the character isn't getting AoOs (dex can still improve hit chance and armor, so it isn't worthless). Since teamwork feats aren't of much use to the character the spellbreaker & preacher archetypes are pretty good. If the char has some int you might ask your GM if focused shots can be used with firearms. I'd see about creating a gravity gun spell analogous to the gravity bow spell.
True Strike, is an Inquisitor spell.
I am sure Deadly Aim is a must as well.
blackbloodtroll wrote: True Strike, is an Inquisitor spell. Well I feel silly now.
cnetarian wrote: personally I couldn't go with the one shot idea because it means giving up ranged AoOs and I find those too useful,
How are you getting AOO at range in the first place. They are normally illegal and i only heard of one specific trick to get around that. (Zen archer + Combat Patrol)
Well, Snap Shot would allow one to threaten, and take AoOs with a ranged weapon.
This is more of a low dex ranged build, as one of the goals is to use wisdom for attack rolls.
I am willing to take a single level dip, if truly needed.
snap shot => improved snap shot gives you a 5' => 15' ranged threat.
I wouldn't do that with this build, it requires feats like rapid shot that this build has no need of and requires free action reloading (which means pistols or the musket master archetype). Also inquisitors are a low feat class if the teamwork feats aren't counted. But for gunslingers it works out quite well as they have high dexterity and can get oodles of AoOs.
if you are going for guided hand don't you need a level of cleric to get channeling to get the channel smite feat to get the guided hand feat?
Swamp domain will provide channel. The other option is the Guided weapon enchantment, but the drawback is not being able to use wisdom for attack rolls for a few levels.
A single level in Crusader Cleric is a thought I had. I would be channeling negative energy by the way.
Maybe a single level in Grenadier Mindchemist to pick up Cognatogen will be the boost I need?
I think you're better off without a dip if you can avoid it. Are you sure your GM will let you pick a nature domain to get channeling?
Already checked, he's cool with it. Though, it is technically useless with Channel Smite.
Do you think the Guided weapon is a better option? I already asked my DM about it's function with ranged weapons, and he's ruled it works.
Guided weapon is better, much better. Imp. vital blow feat (level 15 to get it) adds 1d12 dmg (3d6 with a gravity bow effect) to a hit while the +1 enchantment effect guided displaces adds 1d6 dmg. You've got lots of feats to buy which can be useful and limited feats to buy them with so replacing 2 feats with a +1 enchantment is a good thing. A class which has more feats weighs differently, but you are going to want all the feats you can get, pick extra bane (3 more bane rounds) if you cannot find anything else.
What's a good stat array for this?
3 14 12 10 21 3 would be good although doubtful your GM would let it happen. This is a very SAD character, the only attribute it NEEDS other than WIS is a 13 DEX for the deadly aim feat. Even the not very useful feats you shouldn't pick like "impact critical shot" can be picked up with a 13 DEX. I would go for a 14 DEX so you can get the +2 to hit until you get guided weapon enchant and the +2 to reflex saves (the inquisitor's weak save). Otherwise, STR & CHR are dump stats as far as class & combat style are concerned (character concept is another question, do you want to play an ugly weakling?), INT is useful for skills and doubly so given moster lore while CON is nice to have.
There are 4 core combat feats to this build: rapid reload (level 1), vital strike (level 9), deadly aim (level 3) & improved vital strike (level 15)
2 strongly recommended feats: point blank shot, precise shot
and several useful but not essential feats: extra bane, weapon focus -musket, far shot (examples)
this is a good thing because the character only has 10 feats to play with and some of them are going to be wanted for things other than using the musket. If you put point blank shot, precise shot and deadly aim off until later and went guided hand you still would only be able to get guided hand at level 5 and wouldn't have precise shot until level 11.
Sounds like the Guided weapon is the way to go.
If that is so, do you have any advice on Domain/Inquisition choice?
Using a terrain domain to grab those feats reeks of limburger. That is very so much not the intention of those domains and barely even makes sense thematically.
Not really. The Channel smite is essentially useless with it, and though his opinion is not respected by some, James Jacobs stated it should work.
only advice on domains/inquistions is to remind you that conversion & heretic inquisitions help if you are low CHR high WIS and want to use some social skills.
I would be going heretic inquisitor for the bluff and stealth.
The idea is essentially sniping for greater hit chance.
What level are you starting at? Dumping everything but wisdom and then being totally useless until you can afford a +2 weapon does not sound like much fun.
Well, keeping the dex to 13, and dumping charisma is what I am looking at. I am working with a 25 point buy, and would like to not have a negative strength, if possible. I will be starting at first level, and if need be, a 17 in wisdom(19 with racial mods) should be fine, as I can bring it up to 20 at fourth. Just a thought.
Axebeard wrote: What level are you starting at? Dumping everything but wisdom and then being totally useless until you can afford a +2 weapon does not sound like much fun. It's not a useless build until it gets a guided weapon though. Touch attacks, judgement and spells on tap make up the hit chance deficit at early levels, and when full BAB martial characters start getting power attack and multiple strikes bane kicks in.
Is this an optimized character, no. It is competitive as a damage dealer with full BAB characters until the highest levels when the TWF Ranger wielding +5 corrosive/flaming/frost/thundering/shock scimitars can make an unholy number of attacks against instant-favored-enemies for 1d6 + absurd.
That said, I re-recommend the 14 DEX. It's only 2 Build Points more than 13 for +1 to reflex saves (and AC and early hit chance).
Hmm, if so, what would the stat array look like then?
cnetarian wrote: It's not a useless build until it gets a guided weapon though. Touch attacks, judgement and spells on tap make up the hit chance deficit at early levels, and when full BAB martial characters start getting power attack and multiple strikes bane kicks in. Touch attacks help, but I heard talk of some sort of novice gunsmither feat, or something. So we're looking at, given that this is a duergar, level 5 before you can even think about precise shot. -4 for firing into melee, and most enemies will have cover, so +4 AC.
Judgment is only 1 combat per day until later on, spells generally take standard actions to cast, and bane isn't something that he's going to have access to but for 5 rounds per day when he first gets it. I don't even think this is competitive without a Guided weapon - especially because so many of the ranged feats won't come into play until his career is halfway over.
Fun? Sure. Any character can be fun. Competitive? Even casting a spell (divine favor, probably) and using his only judgment for the day, he's at, like, +0 firing into melee. After one combat and his judgment runs out, -1. After two or three combats and his spells are gone, -2. When your character has to consume resources to not be attacking with a negative modifier to the roll, well... yikes. I see this character falling behind at level 1 and generally advancing in power more slowly than the average bear. At least, until Guided weapon kicks in.
@Axebeard: Is a single level dip needed to make this work?
And how much worse is that +0 attack for 1d12 than the one attack of a level 1 full BAB archer with 18 DEX who doesn't have judgement or spells to help firing into melee at +1 for 1d8? Or a paladin who has to use his one smite/day against one opponent to do decent damage because he couldn't afford more than a 12 strength, otherwise he only has +2 to hit and +1 damage and is attacking full AC? Human Fighters can be very strong at the start because they can actually have useful feats instead of just taking the mandatory rapid reload at level 1, but that advantage applies versus all classes and fighters lose their edge at mid-levels. Also note that at level 2 this character has WIS bonus + DEX bonus to initiative which gives a decent chance to avoid having to fire into melee.
Yes the inquisitor has to 'consume resources' to remain competitive, but the same criticism could be applied to any inquisitor or other MAD class build, the whole point of the class is that the inquisitor has the 'resources' to make them competitive despite not having an 18 strength or dexterity. It would be just as wrong to say that Rangers shouldn't figure gravity bow and instant favored enemies into their potential, alchemists shouldn't include bombs and mutagens into their potential, or that a magnus shouldn't include her enhancement bonus to her potential. 3 encounters/day is a rough pace for a level 1 group - melee types run out of HPs & casters run out of spells, so only being competitive in 2-3 encounters a day is competitive.
Maybe two levels in ranger at 2nd and 3rd will bring this up to par?
I would rather not drop more than two levels in any class other than Inquisitor.
If I go for a two level dip into ranger, I can get Deadly Aim without needing to meet the prerequisites. If I do this, would I need to still bring my dex up?
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