All,
I am planning a Wizard who takes basically all the Craft/Forge/Item Creation feats (other than potion-based ones). I also want to have the Craft Skills that are needed.
I am wondering which Craft skills, according to the rules, are needed?
I had originally assumed Craft Weapon, Craft Armor, and Craft Bows would get me by. But I see reference to Craft Carpentry in the description of the Craft skills, and when looking at the Iron Cobra golem, I saw it mention Craft Blacksmith, which I didnt even know was something different from Craft Weapon+Armor. I also noticed various places mention Craft Glass and Craft Jewels and all kinds of stuff that I'd like but just dont have skill points for.
So please help me. My concept is a Dwarf Wizard who not only enchants the blades, armor, rings, staves, wands, and golems, but she also crafts all or most of the components used. I'd like to have high ranks in them so I am curious what Craft skills I really need to have (according to the rules).
Thanks!
I dont mean the magical crafting, I mean the mundane side. Spellcraft doesnt let me make a sword, does it? I have to buy the masterwork sword and then use spellcraft and my crafting feat to enchant it.
I want my character to be a full-on mundane blacksmith / weaponsmith / armorsmith / whatever-else I need to be in order to have her make her own custom blades with her own designs and etc, so that she can have a reputation as an actual golem / armor / sword / item maker.
I'm wondering what the rules are for that.
Thanks!
I dont mean the magical crafting, I mean the mundane side. Spellcraft doesnt let me make a sword, does it? I have to buy the masterwork sword and then use spellcraft and my crafting feat to enchant it.
I want my character to be a full-on mundane blacksmith / weaponsmith / armorsmith / whatever-else I need to be in order to have her make her own custom blades with her own designs and etc, so that she can have a reputation as an actual golem / armor / sword / item maker.
I'm wondering what the rules are for that.
Thanks!
By RAW you can create the whole item with spellcraft, the mundane portion included.
I find that sort of disappointing.
But if I wanted to make a non-magical sword, I would suddenly find myself incapable?
Seems very strange.
Thanks.
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By RAW you can create the whole item with spellcraft, the mundane portion included.
Not true at all. By the rules you can enchant any kind of item with spellcraft, but you can't craft them.
To create magic armor, a character needs a heat source and some iron, wood, or leatherworking tools. He also needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being the armor or the pieces of the armor to be assembled. Armor to be made into magic armor must be masterwork armor, and the masterwork cost is added to the base price to determine final market value. Additional magic supply costs for the materials are subsumed in the cost for creating the magic armor—half the base price of the item....
To create a magic weapon, a character needs a heat source and some iron, wood, or leatherworking tools. She also needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being the weapon or the pieces of the weapon to be assembled. Only a masterwork weapon can become a magic weapon, and the masterwork cost is added to the total cost to determine final market value. Additional magic supplies costs for the materials are subsumed in the cost for creating the magic weapon—half the base price of the item based upon the item's total effective bonus.
....
To create a magic ring, a character needs a heat source. He also needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being a ring or the pieces of the ring to be assembled. The cost for the materials is subsumed in the cost for creating the ring.
...
To create a magic staff, a character needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being a staff or the pieces of the staff to be assembled.
...
To create a magic wand, a character needs a small supply of materials, the most obvious being a baton or the pieces of the wand to be assembled.
...
To create a wondrous item, a character usually needs some sort of equipment or tools to work on the item. She also needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being the item itself or the pieces of the item to be assembled.
The exceptions to that row of text are the potions and rods.
spellcraft don't produce the item to be enchanted.To the OP: there are 2 solutions to your problem (if you want to have all yours tuff self made):
1) with the exception of the 3 skills needed to make masterwork weapon and armor (armor, bows and weapons) you could take only 1 skill in each of the relevant crafting skills. you can them make the item (as there is no requirement for a masterwork item). Crafting is a intelligence based and a class skill for almost all classes, so taking 10 you should easily get a 15+ result and craft something decent even if it is not piece of art.
To make your weapons, armor and bows you still need to get high values in the related class skills.
2) this option exploit the rules about intelligence enhancing items:
a) take 1 skill in Craft jewellery and the Craft wondrous items feat;
b) make a +2 intelligence boosting item with the linked skill craft jewellery.
c) Now, every time you don the circlet for 24 hours you get the skill Craft jewellery with as many ranks as you character level.
d) craft has many high quality circlets as you want. They are jewellery.
e) find one or more guys with the other crafting skills you want and enchant in cooperation with them 1 intelligence circlet for each crafting skill.*
Now you have a "library" of crafting skills at your hands. To get them at your character level you only need to don the appropriate circlet and wait 24 hours. Each skill cost you 2.000 gp (as you are the one that has made the circlets, 4.000 if you buy already made circlets).
I don't like this loophole and I have changed how intelligence boosting items work in my game, but it is there in the Pathfinder rules.
*PS: if you are willing to take the +5 to the spellcraft skill check for missing a prerequisite when enchanting the circlets you don't even need to have someone that know the skill.
Thanks for the reply.
Even though it may seem a "waste" I kinda want my character to actually be good at these skills, and eventually become great, just for roleplaying reasons.
I think that since I will get 6 skill points per level, I will always keep knowledge arcana, spellcraft, perception, craft armor, and craft weapons maxed.
With my 7th point, at each level, I will put 1 and only 1 skill point into a craft skill to round out my support crafting: blacksmith, bows, carpentry, glass, jewelry, alchemy, maybe 1 more. After that, I might use the free point to drop 1 per level into all the knowledge skills, starting with engineering.
Man I wish that no class got less than 4 skill points per level.
Anyway, its funny to me that humans actually make better craftsmen (magical or otherwise) than dwarves. Bonus feat, bonus skill point, and +2 to any stat (for a higher starting intelligence).
Btw, is there a separate craft skill for guns? Or will craft weapon + knowledge engineering do?
Thanks.
Mundane crafting is broken beyond reason. To make a masterwork item you need to spend between half a year and five (FIVE!!) years of basicly 8 hours crafting each day.
Doesn't go very well with adventuring.
The Fabricate spell of course speeds this up considerably, but at that time just buying the stuff really isn't such a big deal either.
Alternatively, buy/craft a mundane version of the item and use the Masterwork Transformation spell on it (or have your cleric do it), also alot faster.
Craft Alchemy might also be useful for consumable alchemy stuff, but those become obsolete eventually too, as they get replaced with magical alternatives.
Craft Weapon/Armor/Bows should be enough to cover most needs of the group, and since most DCs don't go above 20 (lower mostly, if you don't make the MW component yourself), a total skill of 10 (including Int bonus, Masterwork tools etc) is enough to simply take 10 on the craft attempt and succeed.
Where do you get a year from? Looked to take a week or so.
Anyway, I simply want, for RP purposes, to at least have the most crazy high craft weapons and craft armor checks I can get. And maybe for whatever craft skill would apply to golems and such (if weapons and armor dont suffice).
Taking 10 + class skill 3 + int bonus 4 + 3 ranks gets me "effortless masterwork" in any other craft support skills I guess, so thats almost cool.
Are there any feats that give +2 to all craft skills, or even +1, similar to knowledge fests like Breadth of Knowledge and Noble Scion of Lore? Or are craft skills too unimportant to have such a feat?
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I had suggested in another thread:
Craft - art
Covers everything not specifically stated as needing a crafting skill to make MW of (swords, armor, bows). I mean, realistically, any artist can cut something down to a rod, make a wand out of a stick, wittle a larger stick into a staff, make crumby silver jewelry, sew up a shirt or cape for REN-Fairs, etc...
(and technically you don't need a rank in it since its not a trained skill... so the poster saying you can do it with just Spellcraft is technically correct)
Where do you get a year from? Looked to take a week or so.
Assuming 10 ranks for a take 10 result of 20
Full Plate armor (non-masterwork)
1500 gp = 15,000 sp
DC 10+9 = 19
Check result 20
19*20 = 380 sp progress per WEEK
15,000 / 380 = 39.5 weeks
Making it masterwork (=1500 sp, 400 per week) is another 4 weeks.
Adamantine (+150,000 sp) or Mithral (+90,000 sp) well do the math.
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15,000 / 380 = 39.5 weeks
Making it masterwork (=1500 sp, 400 per week) is another 4 weeks.
Adamantine (+150,000 sp) or Mithral (+90,000 sp) well do the math.
And at best you can add 10 to the DC making it 29*29 (if you have 19 plusses and take 10). So even at +19 that Adamantine is going to take 150000/841 weeks. So that is 179 or so weeks. Or roughly, YEARS.
Pretty sure this is why dwarves live 3.5 times longer than humans. lol.
looks like you might be short a few skill points have you considered few lvls in lets say bard so that she can sing to the metal or tell the story of each Item those favor items might work nicely.
And at best you can add 10 to the DC making it 29*29 (if you have 19 plusses and take 10). So even at +19 that Adamantine is going to take 150000/841 weeks. So that is 179 or so weeks. Or roughly, YEARS.
Pretty sure this is why dwarves live 3.5 times longer than humans. lol.
Actually you can have apprentices using Aid Another on you for another +2 each, but that would probably be limited to 2 or 3 of them as well.
Yes, you can speed things up there are ways. But it still takes so long that it's just not very useable unless you have alot of downtime.
Sure a longsword for 15 gp only takes you about half a week, but make it Masterwork and you're busy for 2 months again. And even that half week you need the full days for it, so you can't just do it in the evening around the campfire.
If your GM allows you to craft things before the adventure starts however then it might be nice, since for that 1800 gp masterwork full plate you'd only pay 600. Just say you spend the last year crafting it.
But during the course of the adventure? Not so much really.
I dont mean the magical crafting, I mean the mundane side. Spellcraft doesnt let me make a sword, does it? I have to buy the masterwork sword and then use spellcraft and my crafting feat to enchant it.
I want my character to be a full-on mundane blacksmith / weaponsmith / armorsmith / whatever-else I need to be in order to have her make her own custom blades with her own designs and etc, so that she can have a reputation as an actual golem / armor / sword / item maker.
I'm wondering what the rules are for that.
Thanks!
I know exactly where you are coming from, I did the same thing with this character where she crafted all her own gear (and half the party's) from start to finish. What I found was that actually making Masterwork gear took a lot longer than enchanting it, so I imported the unseen crafter spell from the Eberron setting, and used that to set up crafters making making all the gear while adventuring. Another way is the masterwork spell from UM, which is very much faster.
There is also a spell in one of the additonal 'mainline' books (Ultimate Combat?) that turns mundane items into masterwork. I can’t really look the spell up now as I am at work, but I believe it’s second level.
Although you do need the funds and supplies for the differential, it basically saves you on the skill checks, and the time needed.
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Get an assistant with this:
Cooperative Crafting
Your assistance makes item crafting far more efficient.
Prerequisites: 1 rank in any Craft skill, any item creation feat.
Benefit: You can assist another character in crafting mundane and magical items. You must both possess the relevant Craft skill or item creation feat, but either one of you can fulfill any other prerequisites for crafting the item. You provide a +2 circumstance bonus on any Craft or Spellcraft checks related to making an item, and your assistance doubles the gp value of items that can be crafted each day.
maouse, a artist can be capable to "craft" a wand or a rod but they aren't capable to make items with mundane uses the artist skill alone.
Cellini was a expert metalworker and jeweller, Michelangelo was an expert at working stone but you will not find a metal statue made by Michelangelo or a stone statue made by Cellini. An artistic skill require to work a specific medium, you can't use it as a catch all skill.AFAIK building a full plate in real life was a 6-24 months project. The master builder wasn't working on it alone and he was capable to do other things while his assistants were busy doing some of the pieces an finishing them, but it was a long process.
Crafting guns: you need the feat unless you live in a world where guns are common, then the GM can allow a gun crafting skills. Recently there was a JJ reply about that in his thread.
So there is a crafting guns feat? I will have to look for it.
In a way, I like the fact that it could take 40 weeks to make full plate armor, and a few years to make something adamantine! But I hate the bloat of magic items and player expectations that they can just spend their gold in a shop somewhere like it was no big deal.
Gunsmithing makes guns. Crafting guns oddly enough follows the magic item creation timeline (1000 gp per day)
Well I can probably get most of them to where my "take 10" os a 20, & I dont plan to make any non-steel/glass/metal golems, so I may not need those.
Thanks for all the replies!
If its fleshy or potion stuff then prob not.
Since you have craft:bows up there, and your looking for craft... Craft: alchemy is a good one. My fighter archer has it, for the alchemical (and specialty) arrows out of elves of golarion. As well as being able to make other stuff, like smokesticks, if needed. It is quite a useful craft.