Good melee damage with low strength?


Advice

Silver Crusade

This is for Pathfinder Society, so don't mention any third party stuff - Paizo only.

I want to do a halfling that's good in melee. But with the -2 strength, a melee halfling could be pretty weak. So I've been trying to decide how to deal with having a low strength melee character, especially with small sized weapon damage, and I've come up with a couple of ideas.

1. Pump strength as high as I can and just accept that I'll never be as good as my counterparts with racial strength bonuses. Barbarian rage is an option to help with this.

2. Weapon finesse to base hit rolls on dexterity instead of strength. Maybe follow up with dervish dance to use a scimitar with dex added to both the attack and damage rolls. This lets me dump strength with this build. The Dawnflower Dervish bard archetype is worth considering here. With the dex bonus on damage, self buffing bardic performance at double the normal bard bonus, and high crit range of a scimitar, this could be effective. Add in power attack, for even more damage.

3. Go rogue. Use weapon finesse to hit things based on dex, then rely on the sneak attacks to do all the damage. Like option 2, this lets me dump strength somewhat, though not quite entirely. This seems like the most obvious option, and would seem to pair well with the Halfling Opportunist prestige class.

Any other thoughts on how to make an effective melee halfling?


I'd say dervish dance fighter
so you also get wep spec and wep training


Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber
Fromper wrote:


Any other thoughts on how to make an effective melee halfling?

An interesting build is a Vivisectionist Ragechemist/Barbarian. With that build you can get a +10 to STR and trade in your bombs for sneak attack.

Grand Lodge

You will need 2 levels in ranger to get power attack with your low strength. After that, you can go into free hand or weapon master fighter.


13 Strength is easy to get, even with a -2 from Halfling, and a two-handed weapon with Power Attack is nice. I've played a Halfling Paladin with an Elven Curved Blade to great effect.

A Fighter can add Weapon Specialization and Weapon Training too, adding even more damage. 13 Strength is all that's needed for Power Attack, but there is no reason to not go higher if you can.


Agile weapon property, if you can get it (I don't know the rules for item acquisition in PFS in regards to that - it's a +1 property if that helps) will give you the effects of Dervish Dance without the feat or the scimitar/one hand only restrictions.

Grand Lodge

Like I said, 2 levels of Ranger will give power attack, without needing to meet the prerequisites.


Agile weapon property, and duelist class as soon as you can go for it will suit this build nicely. I would start as a Free Hand Fighter to get Weapon Specialisation on top. Myself I wouldn't bother with Power Attack. With this design you will make up for in hits what you lose out on in damage.


You can always go for piranha strike too, instead of PA.


The alias I am posting as is a halfing I've made, and tried so many times to get in the game, feel free to look him over, don't take my big idea though...

Grand Lodge

Agile cannot be placed on the scimitar.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Agile cannot be placed on the scimitar.

no, but it can be placed on a dagger, elven curveblade or rapier.


Agile Elven Curved Blade + Power Attack is a great way to hurt things.


Halfing cavalier? For PFS there's not a lot of places for a large mount, but a medium-sized 50 ft speed wolf/riding dog being ridden by a lance-wielding, charging halfling would be pretty formidable. Spirited Charge and Ride-By-Attack would ensure your halfling would be a blitzkrieg miniature tank.


Think about going with the Dawnflower Dervish (or Dervish Dancer) bard and then take a single (or more if you are interested) dip into Urban Barbarian. Urban barbs allow you to put your rage toward Dexterity without any hit to your bardic abilities. It's basically an instant +2 to both attack and damage with the Dervish Dance feat.

Dark Archive

Small size pc summoner mounted on a medium sized eidolon can be done at first level without spells. In both this example and the cavalier, you have another body on the field you can control to use to add damage at your command. Maybe not damage by your character directly but it is still melee damage. Consider taking mounted combat to defend the mount and spirited charge to do even more damage yourself. As a summoner you can take the errata heirloom weapon to gain proficiency in the lance. Sadly, that version only allows a non-masterwork weapon and the magic spell that turns mundane weapons into masterwork weapons permanently only lasts one game by PS rules. Might be better to try that in a home campaign. As much as I hate the idea of multiclassing a summoner, your could try doing it for one level so you can get free martial weapons and something or other else based on what class you take.


Look harder, he's a tiny halfing, increases his AC, so he's impossible to hit, and gets his rats attack + his own attack, which is a 1d8 + 3 and a 1d4 attack all in one turn.

I've yet to let one DM let me play in their group, apparently maximizing your characters isn't supported...

Sczarni

Rangers get Favored Enemy, Paladins get Smite Evil, Barbarians get Rage, Rogues get Sneak Attack, and Bards get Inspire Courage bonuses (and Arcane Strike). Pick any of those classes and right out of the box you'll have a class ability that'll help boost your melee damage, though you won't be able to use it all the time.

Additionally, a battle cleric could Bull's Strength himself to make up the damage, or use Inflict spells as a touch attack. Or you could ride a mount and get double damage on a lance-- cavalier is obviously the class to do it with, but a summoner with a mount-trained eidolon can pull it off too.

Dark Archive

How about don't go with a low strength? A halfling can start off with a 14 with some investment.

Go barbarian and you have an 18 strength while raging: with a small-sized greataxe you're doing 1d10+6/x3 at first level, 1d10+9/x3 with Power Attack. You'll have about the same chance to hit as most other characters as well.

Finesse builds, in my opinion, are a very sisyphean strategy.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Like I said, 2 levels of Ranger will give power attack, without needing to meet the prerequisites.

But you can't use the feat without at least 13 Str, regardless of how you got it.

Dark Archive

Interzone wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Like I said, 2 levels of Ranger will give power attack, without needing to meet the prerequisites.
But you can't use the feat without at least 13 Str, regardless of how you got it.

This is incorrect.


You might need to justify your point of view with more than just "this is incorrect" as someone randomly looking at the thread could think that either of you is right as basically you have both just posted opinions and no one has actually posted a rule one way or the other.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Protoman wrote:
Halfing cavalier? For PFS there's not a lot of places for a large mount, but a medium-sized 50 ft speed wolf/riding dog being ridden by a lance-wielding, charging halfling would be pretty formidable. Spirited Charge and Ride-By-Attack would ensure your halfling would be a blitzkrieg miniature tank.

+1 to this. I've run a halfling cavalier up to 7th level so far, and it can be a lot of fun, especially if you are a tactical thinker on the field, trying to figuring out how you want to line up your charges/ride-by attacks. And the damage is very respectable. Buying a 14 str w/ a +2 belt, you can manage 3d6+45 on a charge/challenge at lvl 7.

Also, if your luck is anything like mine, you'll have a companion who is better at surviving than you are and who keeps dragging your body back to the grand lodge.

Dark Archive

Michael Foster 989 wrote:

You might need to justify your point of view with more than just "this is incorrect" as someone randomly looking at the thread could think that either of you is right as basically you have both just posted opinions and no one has actually posted a rule one way or the other.

You're right. It's late and I'm tired.

Ranger page.

Quote:
The ranger's expertise manifests in the form of bonus feats at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level. He can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites.

It's not like you get the feat and then have to make up the prerequisites. This is something that rangers get over other classes. It's the same way that monks don't need to meet the prerequisites of the bonus feats they take.

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