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If you are wanting to use FoB with a club like weapon you could try the Tonfa (light martial 1d6 x2 B blocking, monk)or the Dan Bong (light exotic 1d3 x2 B blocking, monk and +2 to grapples).
The only way I can think of use FoB with a club is to get the crusader's flurry which would mean you'd have to take a level of cleric and worship Irori.
The easiest way would be to get proficiency with the tonfa i think
Last time I checked my hanbo was 36" long, but aside from that I take your point, and it's a troubling one. effectively though, they are all 'staff' weapons and you could simply substitute the bo-staff for them mechanically, which is what I would do (just tell your DM it's a staff without the double weapon property, he should be OK with it).
I used to study ninjitsu, but I am way out of practice.
Not that I don't sympathise with your efforts, but Pathfinder does (as D&D 3.whatever always did) a horrible job representing real life martial arts. It's like everything else involved in the combat of the game, very stylized and abstract, and pretty far removed from reality. Way back when I ran a game and tried to come up with a common sense set of house rules where weapons functioned like me and my group believed they should...it was a nightmare. We spent more time trying to make things work than ever playing.
That has been the D&D combat system from the very inception with 'Chainmail'. There are a huge number of problems with it, when it comes to verisimilitude, but it is what it is. I can live with it...after all, it is meant to be a 'heroic' system where people can perform superhuman acts.
It was, and I wish I'd never stopped, Sully, but life got in the way.
Hey Sully B,
It's weird isn't it? One of the first things kids can do is pick up a branch and "pretend" it's a sword defending the realm!
The "club" can be a very versatile "improvised weapon" from a rolled up newspaper or magazine (Bourne Supremacy) to picking up a broken chair/table leg. In a pinch one can pick up a unfortunate soul's (or an undead's) dismembered arm/leg then VIOLA! <-kudos for those who got the play on worlds> instant club!
In Real World (RW) martial arts there are "wooden swords/daggers" made of various materials, sizes and lengths!
I went to the Philippines for almost one full year (was shy a few weeks) just so I could get my Black Belt in Modern Arnis a Filipino Martial Art (FMA). Since 2002 I've been learning and teaching this FMA and I've been itching to make a monk based upon muh knowledge!
Now...since a round is six(6) seconds long (CRB p 178; paragraph 3) I know that due to my training in the RW I can actually do an FoB type of attack. Think about it...six seconds is ALOT of time.
Count out loud with me:
1 - 1,000
2 - 1,000
3 - 1,000
4 - 1,000
5 - 1,000
6 - 1,000
<Cue Sesame Street's thunder for the Count>
"A a a a aaaa!"
Also, just as an afterthought, why do you suppose that there is an option to use a monk weapon for FOB when the unarmed damage gets so powerful at higher levels? Is it just for "flavor", or gameplay?
Not getting into the current Monk Mechanics dilemma: regarding a monk's increasing unarmed damage...I'm making an educational guess that weapons were needed to by pass DR. <shrugs>
Again, as Fraust points out, a game's mechanics sometimes can not imitate RW examples. So it's OK to suspend belief for a few hours and just have fun in the realm of imagination!
The internet is rife with such simple and easily made weapons you can build a strong argument and make a petition to your GM that clubs should be a part of the monk's arsenal of weapons. Yes, work out the details and specifics with him because the club, although simple, has it's limitations.
If you're confident enough AND if your GM is open-minded I'm sure us folks here on the interwebs can help form a case to make the club a part of the monk's arsenal ;p
That's my two cents worth and (with my sticks held high) I'm standing by muh typed up testament,
Rom001
So true, Rom.
When I did my own redesign of the monk (so many of them out there I know) I put in more versatile weapon options. Seems to work OK in the tests I have run.
So true, Rom.
When I did my own redesign of the monk (so many of them out there I know) I put in more versatile weapon options. Seems to work OK in the tests I have run.
Yup Yup Dabbler! I've actually copied & pasted your and Master Arminas' redesign. When it comes to the mechanics I have to break it down into smaller digestible pieces.
Both looks good so far!
I won't comment on this here as this is SullyB74's thread.
Sooo. Ninjitsu huh?!?! If you can get back into it...or any other martial art for that matter. I got into the FMAs rather late myself (my mid/late twenties). It's a good thing I learned a stick martial art form. When I need to I can use both of them to hold me up when I'm too old, tired and/or sore to stand and walk ;p
Rom001
Hello, all.
After playing tabletop RPGs for many years I have finally rolled up my first monk and began playing him last Friday. I have chosen Kenpo as my "fighting style" just because I like the martial art and I haven't seen or heard of anyone using that as a template for game play.
Anyhow, I wanted to be able to use clubs as an option for flurry of blows (FOB) because Kenpo clubs are used as weapons in some black belt forms, namely Long Form 7. (I believe this form is called Sword of Destruction, but I could be wrong.) The GM said that I could not use them for this purpose because clubs are not listed as an optional weapon for FOB. I acquiesced, not looking to be a jerk, but I still wonder why the jo stick, a common weapon dating back to AD&D and being present up to 3.0 Oriental Adventures, hasn't been included in any Pathfinder publication that I can find. It's simply a long thin club, usually 21" in length and approximately 1" in diamter. What if you wanted to create an esrima pratitioner (AKA escrimador)as a monk? Shouldn't that character be able to use ironwood clubs of various lengths for flurry of blows, as well a machete or a dagger?
Also, just as an afterthought, why do you suppose that there is an option to use a monk weapon for FOB when the unarmed damage gets so powerful at higher levels? Is it just for "flavor", or gameplay?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
A club? Bah. The tetsubo, a giant banded greatclub is a traditional Japanese monk weapon. As is the naginata (halberd).
As a consequence of this, and too much shogun, my monks are far more Japanese themed now. Less monkey animal form or wushu, and more kill you with a halberd or break your neck in a juijitsu hold.
So I altered the proficiencies. It actually makes sense for monks to have some high damage weapons, so that low level monks can counter serious opponents. Can they flurry with it? Well you have to watch out that doesn't get abused.
I've heard monks complain about their low level damage. Okay, keep your 1d10 or high crit weapon as your main until your unarmed surpasses it. That a low level monks should be able to do better than a great falchion seems ludicrous to me.
@Dabbler: I tried to access your redeisign but I was unable load it. I really wanted to read it.
Try this link - just right-click and select 'save as', it's a standard PDF file. Failing contact me on PM for my e-mail address and I will forward it to you.
Rom...one of the guys who taught a self defence class I took was real into the Phillipino arts. Favorite part of the class for me was the stick work.
Been trying my damndest to make a character who uses bartitsu (a single stick style developed in the 1800s, mixes stick work, boxing, kicking, and wrestling) but it's just not working within the current rules.
What sort of things would it do not covered by a staff or bo staff, Fraust?
Dabbler...it's used the same as a fencing sword, so quite a bit different than a staff...on top of that the cane is heavily used to graple/disarm/trip.
Sully...if it's all about flavor than I don't see why you would be bothered you can't flurry with it, flurry being nothing more than game mechanics.
Hey Sullyb: I've heard the same too. Much to the chagrin of Jeff Speakman people ask if he studies the FMA!
Hey Fraust: Uh oh! Do I hear another person who'd be interested in learning this part of my Filipino culture & Heritage?
As for you trying to develop a bartitsu...for now it looks like the straight up fighter (sans FoB) could make for an interesting character.
Just keep crossing your fingers that the "fix" can come soon.
Rom001
Dabbler...it's used the same as a fencing sword, so quite a bit different than a staff...on top of that the cane is heavily used to graple/disarm/trip.
Sully...if it's all about flavor than I don't see why you would be bothered you can't flurry with it, flurry being nothing more than game mechanics.
I know that, but you have to remember we are working with an abstract system. A cane is functionally a weapon that does 1d6 20/x2 damage, the same as a staff or a club. It can be used to trip or disarm, same as a club or staff. Using a stick to assist with a grapple is a skill that will work with many weapons, so should be represented by a feat and not the weapon. How you hold it isn't actually that relevant.
In short, you can argue it's functionally half a quarterstaff, and effectively re-skin a quarterstaff for it.
Rom...I'm an anthropologist, culture and heritage is sorta my thing ;)
Dabbler...I would be very happy with some apropriate feats, though honestly I think Pathfinder is a very weak system in regards to representing combat like that...least in my own eyes. I do agree that it's less a function of the weapon and more a function of the user.