Just re-read the entry and the Paladin Detect evil seems to fall short of the Spell by quite a lot...
So the paladin ability can't be used against creatures that the Paladin cannot see whereas the spell seems to be able to detect from the far side of a wall etc. (60' cone)
Am I reading this right?
That's how we've always played it in our games. Paladin's ability is faster, but only on single targets. It's not meant to be at-will-evil-detecting-sonar.
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The Paladin can also just use Detect Evil as the normal spell.
He's got both options. The second one can't be done without actually having line of sight (a target).
The first option IS "at-will-evil-detecting-sonar". Of course, the paladin can't take any standard actions while doing so, is reduced to walking speed (single move actions only), only knows the direction of evil until he starts concentrating on a specific direction, only works on undead/clerics of evil gods/creatures 5HD or greater, etc.
I'm not seeing that second interpretation there. Are you reading that under the "as the spell" portion of that?
Ahh spiffy. OK I did read it wrong.
The spell, Detect Evil, is Cleric only, unless there is an exception/alternate class/feat/oath that grants it somehow. Otherwise, the Paladin uses Detect Evil, as the spell, with the exceptions listed in the ability description, i.e. a move action grants him all the same knowledge as if he had studied the target for 3 full rounds, but only that single target.
At will, a paladin can use detect evil, as the spell. A paladin can, as a move action, concentrate on a single item or individual within 60 feet and determine if it is evil, learning the strength of its aura as if having studied it for 3 rounds. While focusing on one individual or object, the paladin does not detect evil in any other object or individual within range.
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At will, a paladin can use detect evil, as the spell. the rest is apparently an alternate to that.
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If you use the cone, he is right.
If you use the targeted version, he is wrong. You can select a target and pig it with Detect evil as a single move action.
A paladin can, as a move action, concentrate on a single item or individual within 60 feet and determine if it is evil, learning the strength of its aura as if having studied it for 3 rounds.
If your GM was right, the text would have been "While detect evil is active, a paladin can, as a move action, concentrate on a single item or individual within 60 feet and determine if it is evil, learning the strength of its aura as if having studied it for 3 rounds."
A paladin can use detect evil as the spell which means yes, you do have to maintain concentration as normal.
However a Paladin can as a move action look at one dude and determine if he's evil or not all in one go. You dont need to cast the regular version first. The Paladin has a special move action version.
Since you can use the ability at will, who cares if it stops working after a round or two. All you need to do is to activate the ability again.
When the paladin uses the move action that is all it takes to activate the ability. The paladins uses one version or the other. If he uses the standard version it acts just like the spell. If he uses the paladin’s move action it does exactly what it says. It uses a move action and learns the aura strength of a single item or individual and then stops.
Detect Evil has a duration of "concentration, up to 10 min./level (D)" so yes, you have to concentrate on it.
Concentration: The spell lasts as long as you concentrate on it. Concentrating to maintain a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Anything that could break your concentration when casting a spell can also break your concentration while you’re maintaining one, causing the spell to end. See concentration on page 206.
You can’t cast a spell while concentrating on another one. Some spells last for a short time after you cease concentrating.
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Also, since it's a spell like ability everyone knows you're doing it. People always seem to think it's in secret, it's not. Unless I'm missing something.
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The issue there is that even though the spell is 10min per level he has me spend a standard every single round to maintain (by that I just mean to keep it on me, not actually getting the benefit) in even when walking peacefully down the road (not trying to sense anything). To lose a standard every round would prevent me from just putting the spell on and keeping it on. Which means I have to wait until the last second spend an standard to cast and then a move to use the paladin only function.Since you can use the ability at will, who cares if it stops working after a round or two. All you need to do is to activate the ability again.
When the paladin uses the move action that is all it takes to activate the ability. The paladins uses one version or the other. If he uses the standard version it acts just like the spell. If he uses the paladin’s move action it does exactly what it says. It uses a move action and learns the aura strength of a single item or individual and then stops.
Again, partially correct.
You need to spend a standard action every round (after the first) to keep it active, but you get the full benefits of keeping the Detect evil spell active.There are no drawbacks in doing that for a few minutes, but if you move and keep it active you are essentially doing the same thing as hustling, and that can generate fatigue.
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Also, since it's a spell like ability everyone knows you're doing it. People always seem to think it's in secret, it's not. Unless I'm missing something.
Casting either version of Detect evil is an SLA and is visible ([rl=https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9tza]FAQ[/url]), but maintaining the cone version is not automatically visible. The paladin needs to spend a standard action to maintain it, so he can be noticed, but it is not automatic.
To select a new target for the targeted version the paladin needs to use the ability again, so the activation is visible.
That's also assuming you even use the manifestations rules, as I can count on fewer hands the people that like them than those who don't.
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That's also assuming you even use the manifestations rules, as I can count on fewer hands the people that like them than those who don't.
I have the opposite experience.
Most tabled don't like to have the spellcasters be able to dominate the universe without their action being noticed.
There's other ways to notice. But more people don't like metamagicing silent+still and being told "no, I saw your eyes glow."
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There's other ways to notice. But more people don't like metamagicing silent+still and being told "no, I saw your eyes glow."
Benefit: A silent spell can be cast with no verbal components. Spells without verbal components are not affected. A silent spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.
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Benefit: A stilled spell can be cast with no somatic components. Spells without somatic components are not affected. A stilled spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.
Neither benefit says that the effect is to make the spell harder to detect.
At your table, a spell without somatic components is harder to detect or identify?
A still spell?
There is a feat to conceal spellcasting:
Conceal Spell
Source Ultimate Intrigue pg. 80
You can hide the evidence of spells you cast.Prerequisites: Deceitful, Bluff 1 rank, Disguise 1 rank, Sleight of Hand 1 rank.
Benefit: When you cast a spell or use a spell-like ability, you can attempt to conceal verbal and somatic components among other speech and gestures, and to conceal the manifestation of casting the spell, so others don’t realize you’re casting a spell or using a spell-like ability until it is too late. The attempt to hide the spell slows your casting slightly, such that spells that normally take a standard action to cast now take a full-round action, and spells that normally take longer than a standard action take twice as long. (Swift action spells still take a swift action.)
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I would prefer it if it had higher skill prerequisites and it lacked Deceitful as a feat tax, YMMV.
We are both speaking from our experience, and our gaming groups are different, but I doubt any of us has a sufficiently large base to state what is the more common opinion.
On the other hand, the Paizo Devs opinion is clear.
In the time since Ultimate Intrigue was released, I can count from the people I have played with at least twice the people who were upset about this new rule's addition than people who enjoyed it.
And yes, silent spell makes it significantly less audibly obvious from the equivalent of the perception check to hear combat down to realistically no/infinite DC to hear, and still spell does the same for visible effects. Some spells (i.e. fireball) will never be hideable, because the spell itself has a visible effect without the dumb "spell intrigue" rule, but something like charm person with no obvious effect could easily be silent+still cast while someone else is talking to completely obscure the casting.
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Silent and Still metamagics are for when you need to D.Door out of a Chokehold... not a way to abuse magic in public all willy-nilly. Although, those two exact metamagics are what the Arcane Trickster's Tricky Spells ability uses. Hard to argue with that... other than new material has a habit of making some things obsolete (like Magus/EldritchKnight, respectively).
Anyways, Bards have Spellsong, but they are already prancing around... so it's easy to believe they can disguise the subtle flip of their wrist amidst all the other flamboyant movements they are likely to be making.
Someone trying to hide the casting of a spell without the extra movements or vocals is going to have to habe a whole new set of tricks up their sleeve... and they probably do, because magic.
The Inquisitor at my table always said "I do my thing" and pantomimed holding a hand out towards the target. I understand that is only using the SLA version, not the Paladin's movement action sonar ability, but I would imagine it would still have some manifestations of holy magic reaching out into the darkness.
I have seen Paladins play it as saying the name of their god... and that is how I played my 5e Paladin using Divine Sense. Sometimes it was a mumble, other times it was a shout echoing through the darkness. At least it is not constant, because playing a Noble Drow with constant Detect Magic can be a pain...
The GM knows about my character's constant Detect Magic, but I rarely bring it up. The GM would tell me if my radar sensed anything, kind of like a plot device, more than I used it to search for stuffs unseen. If I suspected my Perception failed to pick something up, but was convinced there was a something to pick up, I would sometimes use it as if I could cast the spell... and often pantomimed holding my hand out in the direction I was attempting to Detect Magic. Even though I rarely stated I was intentionally using my Detect Magic vision, we agreed that my character always had a slight glow to him due to being an intensely magical creature. He could still make Stealth checks without penalty, but people could see that Vash was freaking magical... not unlike David Bowie in Venture Bros.
I imagine it to be similar with the holy magics flowing through a Paladin using Detect Evil.
If you're using a spell-like ability then anyone watching you can make a spellcraft roll to figure out what you're doing. Well if they have the appropriate skill that is. :)
My table all seem to really like the spell manifestations. Likely because they enjoy the challenge of coming up against charmed enemies and trying to either convince them that they're being used or, at the very least, not kill them because they realize the NPCs are being manipulated.
Heck, one of my players took constant detect magic because they wanted their character to have glowing eyes.
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My table all seem to really like the spell manifestations. Likely because they enjoy the challenge of coming up against charmed enemies and trying to either convince them that they're being used or, at the very least, not kill them because they realize the NPCs are being manipulated.
Heck, one of my players took constant detect magic because they wanted their character to have glowing eyes.
That's... not how spell manifestations work. They are there when casting the spell. They do not persist for the duration of the spell. (Course your game, play how you want, and all that).
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Sorry, didn't describe the situation nearly well enough... the group encountered an antagonist that was charming people in public and the group was trying to call him out for it. Everyone in the crowd knew the NPC was casting spells but he had used bluff to say he was healing / helping people, a PC succeeded on spellcraft to identify the spells he was casting, so the group then tried to convince the commoners that the enemy was charming them instead of helping. But since a few key members of the audience had been charmed it became a difficult situation.