The Magus can use his Arcane pool to enhance his bow at this archtype ability seems to let the magus cast spells throw his bow like they wound through a sword.
At 4th level, a myrmidarch can use spellstrike to cast a single-target touch attack ranged spell and deliver it through a ranged weapon attack. Even if the spell can normally affect multiple targets, only a single missile, ray, or effect accompanies the attack. At 11th level, a myrmidarch using a multiple-target spell with this ability may deliver one ray or line of effect with each attack when using a full-attack action, up to the maximum allowed by the spell (in the case of ray effects). Any effects not used in the round the spell is cast are lost.
The Arcane Archer gains magical bonuses to none magical arrows and has the ability to Imbue Arrow.
At 2nd level, an arcane archer gains the ability to place an area spell upon an arrow. When the arrow is fired, the spell's area is centered where the arrow lands, even if the spell could normally be centered only on the caster. This ability allows the archer to use the bow's range rather than the spell's range. A spell cast in this way uses its standard casting time and the arcane archer can fire the arrow as part of the casting. The arrow must be fired during the round that the casting is completed or the spell is wasted. If the arrow misses, the spell is wasted.
To me this is basically the same thing. most spells I would place on an arrow fall with in the magus ability. I am really wondering if the Prestige Classes or not worth looking at any more. Given the limited spells of the Prestige class I wound think that the Magus spells give it a greater advantage as well. Thoughts ????
Add into the mix the magus can ware heaver armors and the arcane pool grants more raw + to the arrows than the Arcane Archer. I am really thinking that a new archtype for the magus as an archer is better then taking any levels in the Prestige class. Any thoughts? or is this just my personal rant?
You might do better to compare Myrmidarch vs. Eldritch Knight with a bow. Since the latter itself is plainly superior to Arcane Archer. AA is a bad prestige class...
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The major advantage of the AA is the ability to put *area of effect* spells on arrows and then fire as part of the casting. In that way, you can break the range on area spells, and also get one attack's worth of archery damage on one of your targets. Starting at 4th level, the AA can fire around corners and make other impossible shots.
The Myrmidarch can only do that with single target touch spells. The Myrmidarch is probably better at single target effects, but the AA wins at the game of versatility.
The trick being that it is not hard for a Myrmidarch to fulfill the prerequisites for the AA class. Assuming that you are willing to stick around until your 3/4 BAB totals out to +6, you can start down the AA path and get the best of both worlds.
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You might do better to compare Myrmidarch vs. Eldritch Knight with a bow. Since the latter itself is plainly superior to Arcane Archer. AA is a bad prestige class...
The problem with the EK is much the same as the Mystic Theurge - you get more options, but none of them are better than the options that a single class would give you, and you don't get any more actions or turns to use all of your options.
The Magus (Myrmidarch included) is useful for being able to break action economy wide open with Spell Combat and Spellstrike. You can't get those abilities by combining Fighter and Wizard - it's a Magus only treat.
The only similar ability that even comes close to flying in the face of "do one and only one thing each turn" is the AA's imbue arrow cast-and-fire ability.
An AA who qualifies using the Wizard or Sorc class will also have a much wider list of spells, along with a faster progression at the bottom and top of the level curve, though making a break for the +6 BAB probably means most Magus builds have comparable spell progression before the AA makes the pre-reqs.
What good area spells actually benefit from Imbue Arrow, though? Color Spray and what else? Most are already medium or long range anyway, and imbuing means you have to roll to hit now.
I guess an EK w/ a dip into AA might be alright, though you'll lose yet another caster level in so doing. Imbue Arrow comes pretty early. Actually doing AA 10, though? That's crazy!
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What good area spells actually benefit from Imbue Arrow, though? Color Spray and what else? Most are already medium or long range anyway, and imbuing means you have to roll to hit now.
I guess an EK w/ a dip into AA might be alright, though you'll lose yet another caster level in so doing. Imbue Arrow comes pretty early. Actually doing AA 10, though? That's crazy!
Yeah, Imbue is not the best, and Arrow of Death is not worth staying in the class all the way to 10 to get. Seeker Arrow, Phase Arrow, and Hail of Arrows could all have their uses. I'd love to shoot people around corners. Or even drop area spells through walls with Phase Arrow.
I still wouldn't take EK though. AA provides completely unique abilities (like Phase Arrow) but EK just advances two classes at once, without any special means of blending the two. The only truly unique ability is Spell Critical, and sinking 10 levels into EK also doesn't seem like a great idea when Magus provides Spell Combat and Spellstrike in the first two levels.
The major disadvantage of Magus is that you can't have the Wizard's spell list, unless you take the Spell Blending Arcana many, many times.
What good area spells actually benefit from Imbue Arrow, though? Color Spray and what else? Most are already medium or long range anyway, and imbuing means you have to roll to hit now.
I guess an EK w/ a dip into AA might be alright, though you'll lose yet another caster level in so doing. Imbue Arrow comes pretty early. Actually doing AA 10, though? That's crazy!
Antimagic Field is the spell to use with Imbue Arrow. Almost any campaign in which an AA exists at some point seems to end up with an enemy caster taking an arrow to the face and suddenly becoming a commoner with a better will save.
If I ever get a chance to play an AA I will definitely be cutting out of the class once I get IA and swapping over to EK.
Okay in all the tradition is one or two lvls in wiz or sor and then five lvls in fighter but in the mddle from lvl 7 to 14 or so your spells are limited With a magus you are still building a base or spells and you only delay the AA a one or two lvls. Plus the Acane pool alows you to enhance your aroows at lvl 1 of magus.
by the by combining the other thread I have never looked at a EK as a PC before. no clue what it can and can not do? over all I am thinking that Perstage class are on their way out.
Will
okay Lvl 7 magus lvl 3 EK vs lvl 8 Magus and Lvl 2 AA.
Hands down the Knight.
will
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by the by combining the other thread I have never looked at a EK as a PC before. no clue what it can and can not do? over all I am thinking that Perstage class are on their way out.
Will
Most base classes and archetypes are certainly better, though the upcoming Paths of Prestige might offer some new classes that are worth taking.
One glaring difference is the Arcane archer can get 9th level spell. The Magus Myrmdarch gets better combat ability with weapon training, armor training, fighter feats, and ability to cast in heavier armor though. so it's really just depends what you want. Seems your build that you are pondering can be done with the arcane archer is better going this Magus archetype.
One glaring difference is the Arcane archer can get 9th level spell.
Not without bailing out on his class before it finishes, he can't. At least 1 level on a martial class for longbow prof. + 3 lost CL from AA itself = no 9th level spells for you. Or perhaps you make an Elf or Half-Elf w/ Ancestral Arms, or just take prof. as a feat and avoid leaving wizard or sorc at all before AA. Except then you won't have +6 BAB until level 12, so you'll only ever get 8 levels into AA.
AA sucks.
Now, an EK? He can certainly finish up his prestige class and get 9th level spells.
EDIT: You could do Fighter* 1 / Wizard 5 / EK 10 / AA 4 if you want and (just barely) reach 9th level spells. Still think Fighter* 1 / Wizard 9 / EK 10 is a better build, though.
*Or any full BAB class w/ martial weapon proficiency
One glaring difference is the Arcane archer can get 9th level spell.Not without bailing out on his class before it finishes, he can't. At least 1 level on a martial class for longbow prof. + 3 lost CL from AA itself = no 9th level spells for you. Or perhaps you make an Elf or Half-Elf w/ Ancestral Arms, or just take prof. as a feat and avoid leaving wizard or sorc at all before AA. Except then you won't have +6 BAB until level 12, so you'll only ever get 8 levels into AA.
AA sucks.
Now, an EK? He can certainly finish up his prestige class and get 9th level spells.
EDIT: You could do Fighter* 1 / Wizard 5 / EK 10 / AA 4 if you want and (just barely) reach 9th level spells. Still think Fighter* 1 / Wizard 9 / EK 10 is a better build, though.
*Or any full BAB class w/ martial weapon proficiency
So as you put it though you can't really take 10 levels with out losing those 9th levels spells. But really I've yet to see a 10 level prestige class with 3/4 bab progression that is worth taking past level 8. You get really screwed for taking levels 9 and 10 it seems on every one of them.
The arcane archer is a presitge a class and it shouldn't be something make or break an archer. A Full class should be better but the arcane archer has some flavor to it and can fit in some instances. If I was playing a ranger I might consider the arcane archer if I want to add some arcane casting to my character for the flavor. It's definitely not optimal though.
Elves get longbow prof free. No need to take a feat or a martial class.
Yes, I specifically addressed this.
"Or perhaps you make an Elf or Half-Elf w/ Ancestral Arms, or just take prof. as a feat and avoid leaving wizard or sorc at all before AA. Except then you won't have +6 BAB until level 12, so you'll only ever get 8 levels into AA."
It is impossible to make a 10th level AA that actually gets 9th level spells. End of story.
Imbue arrow with detonate. That's one hell of an explosive arrow. Add meta magics for more fun. Empower or maximize will always give you the best output, but because you can determine the energy type of the spell on cast, there are energy type dependent metamagics that would be brilliant in conjunction with this.
Call the void could be a nice spell for imbue arrow
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Oh, is "Ancestral Arms" the name of their race feature that gives them proficiency? I don't play elves that often and I thought maybe that was some kind of trait or something.
Ancestral arms is an alternate feature for half-elves that gives proficiency with one weapon.
@Stream: the point he's making is that it isn't "perhaps"; you MUST be an elf or half-elf, so therefore always have the ability to have proficiency from your race.
The gem of arcane archer (as I see it) is the ability to shoot around corners and through walls, all the while tacking nasty area spells onto the arrows. Wall of stone the enemies into a box in turn one, shoot a cloudkill into said box in turn two. Proceed to laugh maniacally. This is not to say that AA is particularly powerful, just that it has unique and interesting abilities.
The problem of the myrmidarch, as I see it, is that he can't use all of his class abilities with a bow.
He has to choose if he wants to full attack with the bow, then he can't use spell combat because for that he'd need to wield a melee weapon or he can shoot an arrow with a ray spell, then he can only shoot this one arrow.
A Way around that is using a staff sling as a myrmidarch. But staff slings are much weaker than bows. It's not clear if you can use the halfling warslinger with it and it's not clear if you can reload it and still count as having your offhand free.
If the myrmidarch could spellcombat with a ranged weapon he'd be much cooler.
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I think you are ignoring starting with a myrmidarch adding fighter- archer levels and ending up in AA. Trick shot allows a ranged disarm. Magus Myr can swift buff augment his personal bow. AA adds on elemental damage. You then can imbue effects on battle fields. Personally I am awaiting a clarification on myrmidarch as the text of ranged spellstrike is not clear. But its a faster progression to AA than via wizard.
Elves get longbow prof free. No need to take a feat or a martial class.Yes, I specifically addressed this.
"Or perhaps you make an Elf or Half-Elf w/ Ancestral Arms, or just take prof. as a feat and avoid leaving wizard or sorc at all before AA. Except then you won't have +6 BAB until level 12, so you'll only ever get 8 levels into AA."
It is impossible to make a 10th level AA that actually gets 9th level spells. End of story.
He is right, as was mentioned before EK does seem to be a superior prestige class, but if your heart is set on Arcane Archer allow me to suggest this. Use EK as lubricant to qualify for arcane archer in a way that sucks less
Lvl 1 Fighter.. Lvl 2-6 Wizard.. Lvl 7-9 EK... Lvl 10-19 Arcane ArcherIf you start human, take a high int (obviously) Point Blank shot, Precise shot, and Focused shot, you have a playable High Int High dex character that begins benefiting from his path to AA from lvl 1.
By lvl 6, you have 3rd lvl spells from 5 levels of Mage. Lousy BAB(+3) but you can qualify for EK.
By lvl 9, the 3 class levels of EK pushes your BAB to +6 and your effective caster level to 7th (4th level spells at AA entry)
by lvl 19, the 10 AA levels gives you BAB+16 and caster level 14
with a lvl 20 of either wizard or EK the caster level tops out at 15 (8th level spells)
If you want the 9th levels spells you would have to drop out of AA archer at 4th (at the latest) and move to something that was a full caster.
If Hail of Arrows, Phase Arrow, and Arrow of Death are worth losing 9th level spells for you... I'd say this build is playable.
You can't multi-prestige.
Got anything to back that up with? It wasn't true in 3E, 3.5, or PF as far as I know.
EK and AA are hold over prestige classes from 3.5.
In 3.5 most classes gave you little past level 5. The game was designed around taking prestige classes. This was changed in PF. Now classes have solid reasons to stay one class. Core/Base classes are more powerful.
Magus/Witch/Summoner/Alchemist have a visible jump in power over most of the old core classes from 3.5. As such hold-overs like the AA or EK look/are drasticly weaker compared to sticking to a base class. PF has also released very few of thier own prestige classes, and instead gone with archtypes to fill certain nitches that base classes dont fill normally.
PF is designed from the ground up to discourage multi classing or prestige classing. Its just the state of the game.