I noticed that maximize and empower spell state that they dont increase spell DC. At first I thought this was just so the player would know that increasing spell damage by 50% didnt increase the DC but I still assumed that using a level 5 slot for fireball added 5 to the DC for using a level 5 slot. But maximize shouldnt need such a clarification.
Then I realized that they intend that a maxed empowered fireball in a level slot only adds 3 to the spell dc, not 8.
Frankly, that sucks. Surely losing 5 from my level 8 spell slot DC ensures most foes will succeed on saves, even if I have greater spell focus? Esp with save bonus magic items and high monster saves being so common, with few if any magic items too boost saves.
I would kill for a staff of +5 spell dc, kinda like a fighter can get +5 hit/dam.
Anyway, several other metamagic feats dont mention this. Is a level 3 spell in a level 4 slot, with a metamagic feat that doesnt mention the limit, rocking +4 to DC or +3?
Dont all you blasters using empowered maxed fireballs find that foes save way too frequently compared to delayed blast fireball?
The only metamagic that changes the spell DC is heighten.
Staff of +5 DC will never happen. There's a huge difference between adding +5 to hit and +5 to DCs.
Anyway, several other metamagic feats dont mention this. Is a level 3 spell in a level 4 slot, with a metamagic feat that doesnt mention the limit, rocking +4 to DC or +3?
Metamagic Feats: "Spells modified by a metamagic feat use a spell slot higher than normal. This does not change the level of the spell, so the DC for saving throws against it does not go up."
"In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even though it is prepared and cast using a higher-level spell slot. Saving throw modifications are not changed unless stated otherwise in the feat description."
The only metamagic feat that increases save DCs is Heighten Spell, and that is more or less its only purpose.
You might get your DM to let you craft (or buy) a Metamagic Rod of Heighten Spell, even if it's not one of the listed items in the core rulebook. It would probably be too powerful, though.
A Maximized, Empowered Fireball takes up an 8th-level spell slot but retains the DC of a 3rd-level spell. Under normal circumstances, any spell modified my metamagic uses the DC of the unmodified spell.
There are exceptions -- Heighten Spell explicitly makes the spell count as a higher level, which includes save DCs.
Ok, well I think it sucks, but thank you for the clarification. It doesnt suck that bad for quicken, since you effectively double cast, but it kinda sucks for bigger gaps otherwise.
Of course, I want to be able to blast well, and blasting is already weak, so it sucks more for a blaster than a god wizard. I can see how for other spells, it might be balanced.
But even then, I think I would rather just cast a higher level spell. I dont know about anyone elses games, but magic item power creep for saves always kinda bugged me.
Anyway, I was gonna invest in lots of evocation and related metamagic for my goblin sorcerer (sage) but now I think I will shift his spell selection to something else. Too bad, cause I love how their racial lets them pick up lower level fire spells.
Thanks.
Sure, but thats just for one spell. But fair enough.
The fact that the spells level doent actually increase is in reality a big plus, because it means you can metamagize it with a lesser rod, you can recover it with a lower level pearl and you "use" less charge when interacting with item like ring of spell storing or rod of absorption.