Does maximize spell max the damage on crit damage as well?

[donato]

Pretty much what the title asks. If one were to crit with a maximized spell, would both sets of damage dice be maximized?

[Arazyr]

I would say not, based on the interaction between Maximize Spell and Empower Spell. That is, Maximize Spell maximizes the NORMAL rolled values, then Empower Spell gives you half a normally rolled value. Seems to me that the "doubling" from a critical hit would behave similarly.

[Dabbler]

Yes, rays that crit are bad enough as it is.

[Thorkull]

I don't know. I don't think the question has come up in the 12 years I've been play 3E and it's successors, and the CRB doesn't specify. Dotting so I can come back to this.

EDIT: @ Arazyr: Or you could argue that none of the dice are rolled so you don't have anything to double on a crit. Or you could argue that the dice are normally doubled on a critical hit, so they're all maximized.

[Ironballs]

crit double the base damage that was caused by the spell.

if you did 50 damage - the crit will be 100.

if you got the base 50 because you naturally rolled high enough damage, or obtained it via feat - that's besides the point.

[Mojorat]

I think the few examples I have seen suggest the crit damage isn't maximized. Example the kensai ability to Max your weapon damage doesn't affect crits.

[Midnight_Angel]

Ironballs wrote:

crit double the base damage that was caused by the spell.

if you did 50 damage - the crit will be 100.

if you got the base 50 because you naturally rolled high enough damage, or obtained it via feat - that's besides the point.

Negative on that, Houston. On a crit, you determine damage twice (or more times), adding the results together. You do not roll once and just multiply the result.

PRD - Combat rules wrote:

A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together.

[Thorkull]

Ironballs wrote:

crit double the base damage that was caused by the spell.

if you did 50 damage - the crit will be 100.

if you got the base 50 because you naturally rolled high enough damage, or obtained it via feat - that's besides the point.

Actually, that is the point:

'PRD' wrote:

A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together.

So, since you're not rolling dice, do you multiply at all? Or do you roll a set of damage dice and add that to the maximized damage, similar to the way a maximized, empowered spell works? Or does it work as you've described despite not rolling any dice?

[Midnight_Angel]

Thorkull wrote:

So, since you're not rolling dice, do you multiply at all? Or do you roll a set of damage dice and add that to the maximized damage, similar to the way a maximized, empowered spell works? Or does it work as you've described despite not rolling any dice?

In my opinion, you should determine the damage normally, twice... and then add things together, the maximized effect being part of 'determining damage' both times.

Thus, a maximized empowered ray that does 6d6 damage normally would, on a crit, score:
(6d6 = 36) + 6d6/2 + (6d6 = 36) + 6d6/2, for a grand total of 72 + 12d6/2

[Flintas]

Critical Hits: A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together. Unless otherwise specified, the threat range for a critical hit on an attack roll is 20, and the multiplier is ×2.

Exception: Precision damage (such as from a rogue's sneak attack class feature) and additional damage dice from special weapon qualities (such as flaming) are not multiplied when you score a critical hit.

Maximize Spell: All variable, numeric effects of a spell modified by this feat are maximized. Saving throws and opposed rolls are not affected, nor are spells without random variables. A maximized spell uses up a spell slot three levels higher than the spell's actual level.

An empowered, maximized spell gains the separate benefits of each feat: the maximum result plus half the normally rolled result.

On a critical hit, you roll the damage more than once. The exception is precision damage and additional damage dice from special qualities. Maximize spell states that all numeric effects of a spell are maximized. A maximized Scorching Ray deals 4d6 regular and 4d6 crit damage. None of these are precision or aditional quality damage dice. They are the spell's damage rolled twice. So they should be maximised. At least, that's how I read it.

[Hobbun]

Arazyr wrote:

I would say not, based on the interaction between Maximize Spell and Empower Spell. That is, Maximize Spell maximizes the NORMAL rolled values, then Empower Spell gives you half a normally rolled value. Seems to me that the "doubling" from a critical hit would behave similarly.

Wait, so the added dice from Empower Spell is not maximized as well?

Edit: Just read up on Maximize Spell again, yeah, see that clause at the end.

Ugh. Will need to rethink taking Empower, now.