Sooooooo ... if I don't have the Infuse discovery, I can't actually use Cure Light Wounds on anyone other than myself?!?
Uh, yeah. That's the point of the discovery. You can use wands though.
Or be the Chirurgeon archetype.
That's right, but the Chirurgeon archetype lets you use the Cure spells on anyone, as well as eventually giving you Skill Focus Heal and a more powerful heal spell at 10th, but you lose poison use, poison resistance 4, and poison immunity.
Or alternatively if you have the resources you could craft Cure Light potions for half the cost of what they sell for, but thats if you have the time in game and the money for it.
Or alternatively if you have the resources you could craft Cure Light potions for half the cost of what they sell for, but thats if you have the time in game and the money for it.
Yeah, once we're back from this adventure I intend to start brewing up some cure light wounds potions! Mass production ... we have the cash.
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Arise chicken, arise! I see nothing in the rules actually forbidding an alchemist from using a cure light wound on someone, at all. They just can't hand them the potion to use later. If they let go, it goes inert, but if they pour it down a friend's throat, it should work fine.
The primary advantage of the infusion discovery is that you can hand it out ahead of time, and let the other person use it on their own action economy. This is a big advantage, but if you want to bottle feed your adventuring fellows, I saw nothing in the rules stopping it.
Arise chicken, arise! I see nothing in the rules actually forbidding an alchemist from using a cure light wound on someone, at all. They just can't hand them the potion to use later. If they let go, it goes inert, but if they pour it down a friend's throat, it should work fine.
The primary advantage of the infusion discovery is that you can hand it out ahead of time, and let the other person use it on their own action economy. This is a big advantage, but if you want to bottle feed your adventuring fellows, I saw nothing in the rules stopping it.
An infused extract can be imbibed by a non-alchemist to gain its effects.
If the Infusion discovery specifies that other people can gain the effects, that means that normally they can't.
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Quote the whole thing, please.
Infusion: When the alchemist creates an extract, he can infuse it with an extra bit of his own magical power. The extract created now persists even after the alchemist sets it down. As long as the extract exists, it continues to occupy one of the alchemist's daily extract slots. An infused extract can be imbibed by a non-alchemist to gain its effects.
The bolded part is more telling to me. There is a rule that once an alchemist isn't holding an extract, it stops working. Infusion changes that. That's all that infusion is changing. There is no rule, anywhere, that says they can't take the full round action to feed someone an extract.
All you have to do is run over to him and shove it in without letting it leave your possession?
Alchemist: "Don't worry guys, I can totally heal you. I just have to cram this vial down your throat, because if I let it leave my hands or jacket it magically loses all its powers!... Why are you looking at me like that?"
I was under the impression they just don't work unless the alchemist is the one drinking them. Not a big fan of the way infusions/extracts are handled myself.
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When an alchemist mixes an extract, he infuses the chemicals and reagents in the extract with magic siphoned from his own magical aura. An extract immediately becomes inert if it leaves the alchemist's possession, reactivating as soon as it returns to his keeping—an alchemist cannot normally pass out his extracts for allies to use (but see the “infusion” discovery below).
Yep, you can't pass it out, as it says, but no rule anywhere says it won't work if you pour it yourself. It's incredibly inefficient, action economy wise, and a bit of a breach of personal space, but hey, if someone's dying on the floor, the alchemist can help, without the infusion discovery.
It's still very worth it to take infusion, but I think it's also worth knowing the option is there to do it the hard way.
no rule anywhere says it won't work if you pour it yourself.
Yes, there is a rule that says that. It's the rule that I cited earlier, that says you have to use an infused extract for a non-alchemist to gain the benefits.
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An extract is “cast” by drinking it, as if imbibing a potion—the effects of an extract exactly duplicate the spell upon which its formula is based, save that the spell always affects only the drinking alchemist.
Here, explicitly in alchemy alchemist class feature.
RainyDayNinja is correct, and Drejk has the appropriate reference. If you want to use extracts on others, Infusion is required.
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no rule anywhere says it won't work if you pour it yourself.Yes, there is a rule that says that. It's the rule that I cited earlier, that says you have to use an infused extract for a non-alchemist to gain the benefits.
It never said 'for a non alchemist to gain the benefits'. It says this nowhere. What it does say is that it doesn't work as soon as it 'leaves the alchemist's possession' and that it must be drunk, like a potion. You can satisfy both of these requirements by using the full round action to feed someone a potion. Let us compare it to mutagens, which explicitly says a non alchemist drinking it gains no benefit. This verbiage is entirely missing from extracts. Quote the raw that counters this.
An extract is “cast” by drinking it, as if imbibing a potion—the effects of an extract exactly duplicate the spell upon which its formula is based, save that the spell always affects only the drinking alchemist.Here, explicitly in alchemy alchemist class feature.
Bolded part. It does not states "affects anyone drinking". It says "affects only the drinking alchemist".
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When an alchemist creates an extract or bomb, he infuses the concoction with a tiny fraction of his own magical power—this enables the creation of powerful effects, but also binds the effects to the creator.
An extract is “cast” by drinking it, as if imbibing a potion—the effects of an extract exactly duplicate the spell upon which its formula is based, save that the spell always affects only the drinking alchemist.
When the alchemist creates an extract, he can infuse it with an extra bit of his own magical power.
An infused extract can be imbibed by a non-alchemist to gain its effects.
If you just REALLY want this to work, then house rule it. However the intent of the rules as written seems pretty clear here.
I already did quote it, but here it is again:
An infused extract can be imbibed by a non-alchemist to gain its effects.
On top of that, Drejk's reference confirms that normal extracts can only affect the alchemist.
So there is the RAW you asked for. You can ignore it if you want, but don't pretend it doesn't exist.
You're welcome to make a thread for this to be FAQed in, Nuku. I doubt anyone will agree with your interpretation though.
Besides, once it leaves the bottle and is going towards someone who isn't the alchemist, it's left his possession.
Besides, once it leaves the bottle and is going towards someone who isn't the alchemist, it's left his possession.
Does anyone else think it would be mildly amusing to request a FAQ on the RAW definition of exactly what point determines when something is or is not in someone's possession? :P
Back to the OP, if you are concerned about needing to heal others, get a wand of Cure Light.
Alchemists don't even need to UMD a spell trigger item that is on their formula list.
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Besides, once it leaves the bottle and is going towards someone who isn't the alchemist, it's left his possession.Does anyone else think it would be mildly amusing to request a FAQ on the RAW definition of exactly what point determines when something is or is not in someone's possession? :P
According to the DEA at least, anything in your stomach is considered to be in your possession, no matter how it got there. That cost me tens of thousands in legal fees to find out, but I'm giving it out for free.
Thank you for that, you just really lightened my mood. :D
Personally, I believe a pre-made infusion handled by someone besides the alchemist should be treated as a potion. However, this seems somewhat unclear by RAW.
It is specified that the infusion is imbibed, therefore there is a drink action involved.
As I said, this isn't a question that is well-specified by RAW.
It can be house-ruled to be a standard action to use an infusion since it is like an extract (by RAW it is referred to as an "infused extract"), or that it requires a move action to draw and a standard action to drink since it is like a potion (all forms of extract are specified to be imbibed like a potion, but the alchemist has an exception to make extracts drank as a standard action). This is a somewhat contradictory grey area.
I believe the intent for pre-prepared infusions was to act as free potions the alchemist can provide the party with no downtime for crafting or gold expenses, so I personally feel that the pre-made infusions should be treated as potions.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pr7l?Suggestion-Extracts-are-spells
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Let's get to a new question. You have infusion, you make a clw extract, you hand it to a friend.
Time to use it? Extracts are normally a standard action, unlike potions, which are move to draw, then standard to drink.
Same reply as above, in the same section of the rules:
An extract is “cast” by drinking it, as if imbibing a potion—the effects of an extract exactly duplicate the spell upon which its formula is based, save that the spell always affects only the drinking alchemist. An alchemist can draw and drink an extract as a standard action. The alchemist uses his level as the caster level to determine any effect based on caster level.
"An alchemist", not "a character". To draw and drink an extract as a standard action is an ability of the alchemist class, not a power of the extract.
Besides, once it leaves the bottle and is going towards someone who isn't the alchemist, it's left his possession.
The upshot of this is: if your Alchemist drops, someone else can feed you one of you extracts. Once the extract is in the Alchemist's mouth, it's back in his possession and resumes function.
Damn... I need to get a familiar and train it to do this!Besides, once it leaves the bottle and is going towards someone who isn't the alchemist, it's left his possession.The upshot of this is: if your Alchemist drops, someone else can feed you one of you extracts. Once the extract is in the Alchemist's mouth, it's back in his possession and resumes function.
Tumor familiar is the closest familiar you'll ever get. If a little creepy...
Edit: Alternatively, train a monkey.
Eldritch heritage: arcane.Damn... I need to get a familiar and train it to do this!Besides, once it leaves the bottle and is going towards someone who isn't the alchemist, it's left his possession.The upshot of this is: if your Alchemist drops, someone else can feed you one of you extracts. Once the extract is in the Alchemist's mouth, it's back in his possession and resumes function.Tumor familiar is the closest familiar you'll ever get. If a little creepy...
Edit: Alternatively, train a monkey.
Or just take extra discovery for the cool tumor. Alchemist I know tend to dump charisma anyway.