Natural Born Liar ability from Rogue Archetype: Charlatan & Feint


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

I'm playing a rogue with the charlatan archetype and improved feint. The level 1 ability "Natural Born Liar" states, "At 1st level, when a charlatan successfully deceives a creature with a Bluff, that creature takes a –2 penalty on the charlatan’s Bluff checks for the next 24 hours. This ability does not stack with itself."

Does feinting an opponent count as "successfully deceiving" as described in the rule? The bluff skill doesn't describe feinting in much detail, but it does have this written under "action:"

"Deceive Someone: Attempting to deceive someone takes at least 1 round, but can possibly take longer if the lie is elaborate (as determined by the GM on a case-by-case basis).
Feint in Combat: Feinting in combat is a standard action."

Does that mean "feint" is not "deceiving someone?"

I searched for an answer to this, but all I found was this thread here. Most of the posts are about how the original poster misspelled "rogue" and didn't answer the question.

Sovereign Court

It'll really be up for you and your group to decide if a target you feint takes a -2 penalty on additional feint attempts or other uses of the bluff skill.

I know I wouldn't have any problem with that at my table and am personally inclined to say it works since your using the bluff skill against someone and that's as far as it really needs to go for me to think it activates. I'm sure you'll run into folks who disagree of course.


Deceive Someone and Feint are different uses of Bluff, the same as Jump and Move Through a Threatened Square are different uses of Acrobatics. Something that gives a universal boost to Acrobatics improves both of those, but something that only improves one (such as the jump spell) has no affect on the other. So by RAW, it seems that Natural Born Liar doesn't affect Feint.

That said, I'd allow it at my table. Feinting is difficult and the benefit isn't as spectacular as it could be. Rogues need all the help they can get to be combat effective.

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