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So I'm attempting a gunslinger for Society play and I'm looking for some other opinions. I've done some research here among the message boards. A lot of what I find is related more to maximizing as many shots per round as possible. Though I like high damage output (and find the related rules useful), since this character is for Society play I'm trying to be more well rounded. Where I get hung up on is whether to do an archetype or not, and then of course feats. Personally, with the concept I'm designing I see myself more with pistols than muskets. I see the appeal and potential sniper fun with going Musket Master, I wanted to see if I could do Pistolero. That being said, I'm leaning towards the following:
Human Gunslinger (Pistolero)
Str - 10
Dex - 16
Con - 10
Int - 14 (I find multitude of skills useful in PFS)
Wis - 16
Cha - 10
I've only thought through level 5 for feats, but would like to map it out further. With this concept I'm leaning Dodge, Mobility at level 1, picking up Deft Shootist at level 3, Rapid Reload at Level 4, Deadly Aim at level 5. So my question is: Has anyone had experience running a character like this? Was it good, bad, or just plain ugly? Am I way off base trying to run an "up close" gun-fighter?
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I have an "up close and personal" half-elf gunslinger for PFS. It's a Gunslinger/Ranger/Monk combo built off the "switch hitter" concept. Shoot from range until the enemy closes, then use the Catch Off Guard feat to beat your opponent into submission with your rifle. The two rangers levels lets you get precise shot while avoiding the feat tax from point blank shot (as well as a few other goodies including the ability to use CLW wands). Two monk levels give you a couple of other feats (including Catch Off Guard), good unarmed combat damage, stunning fist for those "oh crap moments" and the synergy with wisdom for the AC bonus is really handy. Even with an INT of 10 I have a really broad variety of skills because of the ranger skill points and broad favored class bonuses. Overall it's a bit weird of a class to play, and it's certainly not 100% optimized, but it is fun.
Well, I would definetly work point blank, precise shot and rapid shot sooner versus later. Since your always within 30ft with the pistol the +1 to hit and damage is nice. Also when shooting into melee that -4 its steep even for a gunslinger, when the opponent gets +4 from soft cover it hurts. If you use alchemist rounds you can be using rapid shot quickly. Now personally I would look into going down the snap shot feat tree. I think its combar reflexes as the only prereq and then at the cost of 2 more feats you threaten 10 feat away with your pistol. Cause if you build it right the enemies are going to be coming into melee with you since you have the damage. Oh and lastly, improved crit.
In my current campaign I am playing a pistoleer, level 4 currently and I love it. I am not even doing damage yet since Im not 5th level
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Hmmm, so basically the thought for being up close is to still not actually be in melee when trying to use your gun. My concern was the risk to the AoO related to reloading and firing the gun.
@Nicos: I wanted more Con, but I just like having lots of skills for Society. So, I'm considering the higher risk of being a glass cannon and the lower hit points.
@MisterSlanky: I had actually considered monk, exactly for the synergy reason with the Wis. That way I wouldn't have to "worry" as much about spending money on armor. Just armor related magic items. I hadn't considered ranger though. Something I can ponder over, thanks. At what points did you take which class levels? The Catch Off-guard is different. It'd be a way to avoid spending grit to pistol whip a guy.
@Cpt Jason: My first crack at feats I went straight to point blank and precise shot for that exact reason. Then I realized that reloading and firing were both AoO's (I'm mostly a melee player or cleric, so the shooting rules I'm not as familiar with). Interesting thought with aiming for Snap Shot, but isn't Snap Shot only 5 ft threat not 10? And I'll need weapon focus and rapid shot. About what level do you think you'd shoot for Snap shot (pun totally intended)?
Well Snap shot is only 5ft but improved snap shot turns it into 10. So on my gunslinger I decided to not go after Deft shootist for a few reasons. Mainly being I would rather just take the 5ft step away and get my full attack then spend the 3 feats. Also at 11th you get lightning reload that allows you to reload and not get AoO so thats my reasoning behind taking it. Now if you were going to keep deft shootist I would go about my feats something like this.
1- Rapid Reload
H- Point blank
3-Precise Shot
4- Rapid Shot
5- Dodge
7- Mobility
8- Deft shootist
9- Wep focus
11- Signature Dead, either up close and deadly for an extra 3d6 per shot or twin shot knockdown if you really want to crowd control
12- Snap shot
13- Improved snap shot
You would probably want combat reflexes too and unfortunetly this build doesnt allow you to take deadly aim till late. There are just alot of awesome feats, which is why I struggle so much with deft shootist
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Drop charisma to 8 and move constitution up to 12; the fact that you're getting so many skills will make up for the -1 in a single level.
Since you're up close and personal, you definitely want Point-Blank Shot, and after that you had might as well grab Precise Shot and prepare to get Rapid Reload and Rapid Shot. I'm sorry, but you're very unlikely to have spare feats for a ranged combat build.
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Drop charisma to 8 and move constitution up to 12; the fact that you're getting so many skills will make up for the -1 in a single level.
This. If you're against this ida for thematic reasons, drop Str to 8 instead. Your encumberance might be an issue...but not the worst one ever. In either case, Con 12 is good for you.
Feat-wise, you have a definite problem. Cpt Jason's idea has potential, though.
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I tried to do a similar thing, but wound up combining pistolero (4) into lore warden (2) and will end (when I get there) with duelist. The result is a skill monkey, very high AC for someone in light armor (sitting at 30 when triggering AOOs from movement), very switch hittery with quick draw, and incredibly mobile.
It's pretty fun -- I love playing her as a stand up, honorable duelist, and then getting hit, cursing at my attacker, taking a five foot step back and blasting a hole through them. ;)
Build is listed in my profile.
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Build is listed in my profile.You should really grab that 5th level of Gunslinger. Adding Dex to damage on Guns is really nice.
Truth. However, since it's PFS (capping at level 12), I'm torn between that (which I'd probably rarely use, given my char's propensity for melee combat) and Acro. Charge from the Duelist. My original thought for the build was more of a swashbuckler toon, that was fine matching steel with steel... and then cheating with a gun if it came to it. So in that mindset, +Dex damage on maybe five attacks an entire game might not be worth it.
If I do grab level 5 in gunslinger, it would be at level 12. Riposte is just too cool, and I've been waiting too long ;)
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@MisterSlanky: I had actually considered monk, exactly for the synergy reason with the Wis. That way I wouldn't have to "worry" as much about spending money on armor. Just armor related magic items. I hadn't considered ranger though. Something I can ponder over, thanks. At what points did you take which class levels? The Catch Off-guard is different. It'd be a way to avoid spending grit to pistol whip a guy.
This is my PFS character and right now my progression at 6 is:
1. Gunslinger (Feat: Weapon Finesse)2. Ranger
3. Ranger (Feat: Extra Grit)
4. Monk
5. Gunslinger (Feat: Deadly Aim)
6. Gunslinger
Some of the Build's Features:[list]
As I said before, it's not 100% optimized and it's slow to start, but man it's fun.
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These suggestions are based off play with my PFS Gunslinger (lvl 3 Pistolero).
Str:12
Dex: 18 (+2 Human)
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 14
Cha: 8
Feats:
1st: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Reload
3rd: Deadly Aim
Later:
4th: Precise Shot
5th: Rapid Shot
Using a double pistol, you can suffer waiting for precise shot. If an ally engages an enemy in melee then go down to shooting one shot a round. Rapid shot isn't critical because your shots are doing enough damage at this level and the penalty to hit (with double pistol) is too high. By 5th level though you'll want higher DPR and have a high enough BAB the additional -2 penalty on all attacks won't matter.
In terms of up and personal, put your favored class into hp. Also, go straight gunslinger at least to level 5. Focus on the pistol whip ability. It is awesome. Doesn't do much damage but allows a free trip attempt. If you built a gunslinger with more strength, I could see this being really effective. If going for an optimal build stay gunslinger and use your melee more for utility purposes. The gunslinger simply has too many strengths to warrent multi-classing. The gunslinger should be played like an up close and personal class using ranged weapons, malong the lines of a whip fighter or 3.5 Order of the Arrow.
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Hey everyone, I finally got some time and tried working on my gunslinger build. I got 2 builds at the moment and I may have to retool my stats, but I'll ponder that some more. Please keep in mind, I'm aiming for a balance of "fun to play" and optimization, and would like other's thoughts.
First up, I did like MisterSlanky's dip into 1 level of monk for the Wisdom synergy. I did opt to go Martial Artist for the archetype. Not because I get anything special at level 1 beyond a normal monk, more that I'm not restricted by alignment. Somehow the character concept has evolved into a sorta chaotic good cop guy. With that in mind, I came up with this feat progression:
1st: Gunslinger - Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
2nd: Gunslinger
3rd: Gunslinger - Rapid Reload
4th: Monk - Dodge
5th: Gunslinger - Mobility, Deft Shootist
6th: Gunslinger
7th: Gunslinger - Deadly Aim
8th: Gunslinger
9th: Gunslinger - Shot on the Run, Improved Critical
10th: Gunslinger
11th: Gunslinger - Critical Focus (Not 100% on this one)
Second build, I decided to stay a pure Pistolero. Not so dodgy, definitely more shooty.
1st: Gunslinger - Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
2nd: Gunslinger
3rd: Gunslinger - Rapid Reload
4th: Gunslinger - Deadly Aim
5th: Gunslinger - Rapid Shot
6th: Gunslinger
7th: Gunslinger - Weapon Focus (alt. Clustered Shots)
8th: Gunslinger - Snap Shot (alt. Improved Critical)
9th: Gunslinger - Improved Snap Shot (Critical Focus)
10th: Gunslinger
11th: Gunslinger - Signature Deed (probably up close and deadly)
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I'd toss in the idea of dipping one level of Master of Many Styles Monk. If you choose human as your race, you can get dodge, crane style, and crane wing all at first level. Fighting defensively will become -2 attacks for +4 AC, which you can afford as you're targeting touch AC. You get the uber-ability of negating one melee attack per round with your offhand, which has to be free anyway to reload your gun. You give up flurry, but I sense that you're intending a ranged character and will only be melee fighting in an emergency.
I came up with an interesting build including Gunslinger. Here it is:
Etta Skaalsdottir, Pistol-packing magekiller
I used Martial Artist Monk to give her some good fistfighting abilities, including Panther Style. Worth a look.
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I came up with an interesting build including Gunslinger. Here it is:
Etta Skaalsdottir, Pistol-packing magekiller
I used Martial Artist Monk to give her some good fistfighting abilities, including Panther Style. Worth a look.
This is a fantastic build as well and very flavorful...I just wish a revolver was something one could easily obtain in most games...even PFS doesn't allow them sadly =/
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@Red Ramage: I totally love the Master of Many Styles, but really wanted to focus on Gunslinger levels moreso than Monk. You are correct my intent is more ranged, with melee as a last resort. Alternatively, if I really really had to go to a last resort, I burn a grit point to pistol whip someone. I really am a fan of Deft Shootist, although some are not because it is feat intensive. However I can't argue with the maneuverability that Mobility can give me on the battlefield with a Pistolero.
I used Martial Artist Monk to give her some good fistfighting abilities, including Panther Style. Worth a look.
Very interesting build. I really like Panther style as well, but only if I intend for more levels of Monk. I'm a little sad about not getting to use revolvers in PFS either. I totally wanted to make a high plains drifter character with a six-shooter and quickdraw. I may have to go play Deadlands at some point. Anywho, I don't have it in front of me, but my guess that Miss Lucia has UMD from either Lorewarden or just a bunch of skill ranks.
I didn't realize that PFS didn't allow them; that's too bad. I'm thinking about this one as a ready-to-go backup character in case my current character (a Zen Archer) dies, or needs retiring. Miss Lucia's build, though, looks pretty awesome.
Yeah, the panther style does seem like it would be a lot of fun. That was what triggered the idea for the build.