So, if you have a Humanbane bow and Elfbane arrows, does that mean when you're potshotting half-elves, they take 4d6 extra damage? Since half-elves count as both human and elf when it comes to magic effects... Or does the bow override the arrow when it comes to shooting?
BBT, yeah, the highest enhancement bonus, but the extra damage dice? I guess you could say only the higher-bonus effect's dice get added...
RM, I'm going to disagree that a magical damage bonus and a damage bonus from intense, nonmagical training are actually similar, though I can see why it could look that way.
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I actually think it does do 4d6 damage, but is only plus 2 to hit.
"Against a designated foe, the weapon’s enhancement bonus is +2 better than its actual bonus." Thus a +1 human/elf bane weapon gets a +2 enhancement against elves or humans. Against a half elf both features make it "+2 better than it's actual enhancement bonus." So the human bane ads +2 to the +1 bonus, the Elf bane adds +2 to the +1 bonus, either way, it's +3 against the poor half elf, not +5
The extra 2d6 damage however is untyped. "It also deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against the foe." Since it's untyped, the poor half elf is going to take 2d6 untyped from the elf bane and 2d6 untyped from the human bane. Yes, it sucks to be you.
Yay. My snotty gene-pool purist elf antagonist NPC will be very happy...
Yay. My snotty gene-pool purist elf antagonist NPC will be very happy...
So... Your snotty gene-pool purist elf antagonist NPC is running around with ELFbane arrows?
Yeah. Just being elven isn't good enough. You've gotta be self-righteous 'n'stuff, too. And issuing elven judgment on the halfbreeds with a bane on their corruption of the Blood suits Aarthalin down to his frail, little bones.
IWR* that the best bane damage takes effect but does not stack. I see nothing that states this but I build upon the rules found under Ranger:
If a specific creature falls into more than one category of favored enemy, the ranger's bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher.
*IWR - I would rule but have nothing concrete to back it up.
I actually think it does do 4d6 damage, but is only plus 2 to hit.
"Against a designated foe, the weapon’s enhancement bonus is +2 better than its actual bonus." Thus a +1 human/elf bane weapon gets a +2 enhancement against elves or humans. Against a half elf both features make it "+2 better than it's actual enhancement bonus." So the human bane ads +2 to the +1 bonus, the Elf bane adds +2 to the +1 bonus, either way, it's +3 against the poor half elf, not +5
The extra 2d6 damage however is untyped. "It also deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against the foe." Since it's untyped, the poor half elf is going to take 2d6 untyped from the elf bane and 2d6 untyped from the human bane. Yes, it sucks to be you.
This is exactly how I rule bane weapons at my table. We have a demon hunter who has a sword with chaotic outsider bane and evil outsider bane on it. Evil outsider bane is better than holy for everything but overcoming DR/good.
This is exactly how I rule bane weapons at my table. We have a demon hunter who has a sword with chaotic outsider bane and evil outsider bane on it. Evil outsider bane is better than holy for everything but overcoming DR/good.
I like your weapon for a demon-hunter.
However is disagree that evil outsider bane is better than holy, given that the latter deals the extra damage against all evil creatures.
True. I guess we are playing an outsider heavy game, so other evil creatures aren't cropping up much. You make a solid point.
You can't have a double bane'd weapon.*
Some magic weapons have special abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted). A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents, including those from character abilities and spells) higher than +10. A weapon with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus. Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once.
*I realize Paizo has published some material with double bane weapons, but I can only assume this is in error.
Evil Outsider Bane is a different property than Chaotic Outsider Bane in my book. It also doesn't address Evil Outsider Bane longbows with Chaotic Outsider Bane arrows.
Evil Outsider Bane is a different property than Chaotic Outsider Bane in my book. It also doesn't address Evil Outsider Bane longbows with Chaotic Outsider Bane arrows.
They are both Bane, subtype is irrelevant. You are getting bogged down by specifics, when the Bane special weapon ability doesn't stack.
Stacking arrows and bows doesn't let you use both properies. Firing a flaming arrow from a flaming bow doesn't add +2d6 fire, only +1d6 because the abilities don't stack. Pick a bane and go.
I think one must think of it as Bane (Subtype) not just Bane.
Were you to think that it's just Bane, this quote:
Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once.
would mean you cannot have Bane (Humans) and Bane (Dragons) on the same weapon. That's clearly not the case, so they must be treated as separate special abilities.
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Were you to think that it's just Bane, this quote:
Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once.would mean you cannot have Bane (Humans) and Bane (Dragons) on the same weapon. That's clearly not the case, so they must be treated as separate special abilities.
I think it is the case, as I have said before, I know Paizo has published multi-bane weapons, but I think this is another 3.5 hold-over from writers/designers that are not familiar with the extent of the changes in PF.
The rules clearly state that multiple instances of the same special ability are not possible, we agree on that.
Hmm, I do see that that line wasn't in the 3.5 SRD.
Not bane twice on one weapon; bane on the weapon and a different bane on the ammunition.
Not bane twice on one weapon; bane on the weapon and a different bane on the ammunition.
Unfortunately:
"Ranged Weapons and Ammunition: The enhancement bonus from a ranged weapon does not stack with the enhancement bonus from ammunition. Only the higher of the two enhancement bonuses applies."
The rules are pretty specific about it, otherwise my elven ranger in our Serpent Skull campaign would have been doing the same thing.
This has nothing to do with enhancement bonuses: the question at hand is, having a bow with bane (humans) and arrows with bane (elves), firing at a half-elf, who counts as human and elven, does the poor sod take BOTH sets of 2d6 extra, untyped damage from the pair of bane effects?
Yes.
It does appear that this would work by RAW. I would think it was covered by the clause about stacking abilities, but it is not called out in the ammunition section.
It does bring up an interesting question about whether doing the same with other abilities, such as flaming, would also work. It's expensive, so it may balance out, but I would think twice about allowing it in one of my games.
I disagree with Bane not being different abilities. Otherwise Humanoid would be a viable Bane quality, instead, it requires a subtype. Bane requires you to pick a specific type, meaning a Bane (Elf) is a different type than Bane (Human). The way I read it, you can't have Human Bane and Human Bane, on the same weapon, but Elf Bane and Orc Bane are perfectly viable.
This is exactly how I rule bane weapons at my table. We have a demon hunter who has a sword with chaotic outsider bane and evil outsider bane on it. Evil outsider bane is better than holy for everything but overcoming DR/good.I actually think it does do 4d6 damage, but is only plus 2 to hit.
"Against a designated foe, the weapon’s enhancement bonus is +2 better than its actual bonus." Thus a +1 human/elf bane weapon gets a +2 enhancement against elves or humans. Against a half elf both features make it "+2 better than it's actual enhancement bonus." So the human bane ads +2 to the +1 bonus, the Elf bane adds +2 to the +1 bonus, either way, it's +3 against the poor half elf, not +5
The extra 2d6 damage however is untyped. "It also deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against the foe." Since it's untyped, the poor half elf is going to take 2d6 untyped from the elf bane and 2d6 untyped from the human bane. Yes, it sucks to be you.
What you really want is an Evil Outsider + Chaotic Outsider Bane, Holy and Axiomatic weapon. Granted, that's a minimum of a +7 weapon, but the bonuses are worth it. Even at +1, it becomes a +3 weapon that deals an extra 8d6 untyped damage.
It does appear that this would work by RAW. I would think it was covered by the clause about stacking abilities, but it is not called out in the ammunition section.
It does bring up an interesting question about whether doing the same with other abilities, such as flaming, would also work. It's expensive, so it may balance out, but I would think twice about allowing it in one of my games.
Bane is particular, and untyped damage, whereas flaming, et. al., are general, typed damage, if that helps.
Just for reference, on stacking bane
Just for reference, on stacking bane
Wow, thanks, I just wasted ten minutes reading over a thread that was dealing (at best) with having a single weapon with multiple banes, never even touching on the missile weapon/ammunition issue. :(