Ok, So stick with me here.....
I was looking at the Orc bloodline and the dragon disciple PRC and it seems like you can get some truly great strength out of the deal...
The question is, can this work well enough to be a viable character?
This is for PFS so the adventurs are fairly easy. but still.
I was thinking of useing a two-handed weapon to take advantage of strength.
Half-orc works well as they get great-axe and falchion for free.
I would only have a 12-14 Cha at best so any spells with a save are right out.
That leaves no save, or self buffs.
Buffs seem to be a good way to go.
Am I nuts? or can this work?
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If the rest of the party can compensate for the build, such as a full wizard/witch or something and if your party is martial light allowing you to get your hands on some of the martial based gear, then yes it can and has worked that's what the prestige class is for. you just need to find the right balance in play between caster and hitter, field control and "party" buffs are going to be key. Peronal buffs should be used only in emergency or before combat begins.
I've heard of it working, but I'd never do it while crossblooded.
Rules are too sketchy and I'm certain (in my own mind, I don't want to get into an arguement about it) that the DD class was only meant for actual draconic sorcerers. Personally it just looks and feels too much like cheese (see older posts about AM BARBARIAN, anyone up for doing AM CROSSBLOODED DRAGON). Eldritch Feat lines seem fine though.
You are not crazy. A spell like chill touch is a nice choice because you can use it multiple times over the course of one round. There are plenty of attack and defense spells to help the idea of a melee sorcerer.
For the Orc Bloodline/Dragon Discple part to work though, you'll need to go either Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer and take Eldritch Heritage(Orc Bloodline) or Crossblooded Orc/Draconic Sorcerer.
Ok, So stick with me here.....
I was looking at the Orc bloodline and the dragon disciple PRC and it seems like you can get some truly great strength out of the deal...
Am I nuts? or can this work?
Don't you have to be draconic bloodline for dragon disciple?
-James
This is true.
You are not crazy. A spell like chill touch is a nice choice because you can use it multiple times over the course of one round. There are plenty of attack and defense spells to help the idea of a melee sorcerer.
I once had a necromancer who abused chill touch and spectral hand using it to "Pinball" the field. So the spell was ruled to a 1/round attack and I believe this was always the intention of the spell. At most it would allow for additional attacks based on a higher BAB.
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There are several builds for this type of character floating around the boards if you look. I have a couple of them saved as building blocks for the future. I'm not sure what base class you're looking at besides Sorcerer, though most builds use Paladin or Barbarian. Below, I'll repost one of the builds I saved. I take no credit for it. Since you're looking for a PFS character, not all of this will be appliccable, but you can get a general feel for the character. This particular build is caster-heavy, though I've seen builds that are more melee-centric.
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Half-Orc 2nd level Paladin / 10th level Sorcerer (Gold Dragon) / 8th level Dragon Disciple
Attributes:
STR – 16 (+2 Racial bonus, +1 at 4th and 8th, +2 at 7th, 9th, 11th, 15th and 17th )
DEX – 12
CON – 14 (+2 at 11th)
INT – 10 (+2 at 13th)
WIS – 8
CHA – 16 (+1 at 12th, 16th and 20th)
Natrual Armor +1 at 5th, 6th, 9th, 11th, 12th, and +2 at 17th
(* all bonuses from leveling, feats and class features included)
Feats:
1st - Skill Focus: Survival
3rd - Combat Casting
3rd - Eschew Materials
5th - Eldritch Heritage (Orc Bloodline)
7th - Power Attack (Bloodline feat)
7th - Furious Focus
9th - Arcane Armor Training
10th - Improved Initiative (Bloodline feat)
11th - Arcane Armor Mastery
13th - Toughness (Bloodline feat)
13th - Arcane Strike
15th - Improved Eldritch Heritage (Orc Bloodline)
17th - Quicken Spell (Bloodline feat)
17th - Greater Eldritch Heritage (Orc Bloodline)
19th - Dreadful Carnage or Dazing Spell
Traits:
Magical Knack (+2 Caster level)
Opportunistic Gambler (Morale bonuses last 1d4 rounds longer than normal)
Sacred Tattoo (+1 luck bonus to saves, replaces Orc Ferocity)
In addition to his spell-casting abilities, he'll eventually have access to Tough of Rage (6+ times/day) which should mesh well with Opportunistic Gambler, Power of Giants, Claws & Dragon Bite, a Breath Weapon, Wings, Darkvision 60', Blindsense 30', Fire Resistance and the ability to assume the Form of a Dragon multiple times a day.
Consider half orc if using fire spells for increased damage.
+4Str from DD
+6str (inherent) from EH:demonic
+6Str (enhancement) from belt
+6str (morale) from vengeful outrage (spell)
+10(size) from form of the dragon III
Ok, So stick with me here.....
I was looking at the Orc bloodline and the dragon disciple PRC and it seems like you can get some truly great strength out of the deal...
Am I nuts? or can this work?
Don't you have to be draconic bloodline for dragon disciple?
-James
Heh, see? this is what happenes when I just type and don't read what I put.
Yes you must be draconic.
As Hawktitan rightly deduced tho, I was thinking of crossblooding Orc and Draconic.
And not to get too much into THAT, but for the record...
NO, I do not think crossblooded sorcs getting full bloodline for both was intended.
YES, per RAW this does seem to work.
And really the loss of the spells known is no biggie as I only want the buffs.
At 1st level I know 1 first level spell, yeah that sucks.
Mage armor it is.
At 3rd I get a bloodline spell and another known.
So really 1st and 2nd will be the rough ones.
Lack of BAB is going to hurt a lot, will buffs make up for this?
There are several builds for this type of character floating around the boards if you look. I have a couple of them saved as building blocks for the future. I'm not sure what base class you're looking at besides Sorcerer, though most builds use Paladin or Barbarian. Below, I'll repost one of the builds I saved. I take no credit for it. Since you're looking for a PFS character, not all of this will be appliccable, but you can get a general feel for the character. This particular build is caster-heavy, though I've seen builds that are more melee-centric.
Ok, this is bugging me.
Why do all the DD builds I see have some other class with sorc?
You dont need it like you do for EK.
All you need is.
Knowledge Arcane 5 ranks.
1st level spellcasting.
Draconic language
If a sorc must have draconic BL
I was planning on sorc 5/DD+ (PFS ends at 12th so really its sorc 5/DD 7)
Well a melee sorcerer can work because it uses magic and feats to boost your strength into the lower stratosphere.
At level 20-
+5 Strength from levels, +6 enchancement from items, +6 inheirent from Eldritch Heritage going into Abysal (or Orc), +4 untyped from Dragon Disciple, +10 Size from Form of the Dragon III (+6 size with Form of the Dragon II), possibly +4 Morale to strength from a level dib in Barbarian.
This should cover most of the sources of extra strength. The real power is when you are in dragon form. Starting at a conversative 17 strength by the end this totals to 52. You don't care about BAB since you are attacking with natural weapons. With 52 strength, a bite, two claws, two wings, and a tail who needs BAB :).
Early levels seem like they will be rough, lowish CHA for not that great saves and limited claw usage. You will be a little squishy but you will come into your own eventually. Taking Abysal bloodline with Eldritch feats basically doubles your claw useage, Arcane Strike will help with damage and bypass Magic DR.
When you don't want to melee with the nasties then stay back and cast. Summon minions and pick up spells that can target the weak points of a creature - Have different spells that can target touch AC, reflex, will, and fort (advice for any sorcerer really).
There are several builds for this type of character floating around the boards if you look. I have a couple of them saved as building blocks for the future. I'm not sure what base class you're looking at besides Sorcerer, though most builds use Paladin or Barbarian. Below, I'll repost one of the builds I saved. I take no credit for it. Since you're looking for a PFS character, not all of this will be appliccable, but you can get a general feel for the character. This particular build is caster-heavy, though I've seen builds that are more melee-centric.Ok, this is bugging me.
Why do all the DD builds I see have some other class with sorc?
You dont need it like you do for EK.
All you need is.
Knowledge Arcane 5 ranks.
1st level spellcasting.
Draconic language
If a sorc must have draconic BL
I was planning on sorc 5/DD+ (PFS ends at 12th so really its sorc 5/DD 7)
These builds typically use weapons instead of natural attacks. A melee bard for example, or a paladin who level dips into sorcerer. It's almost like going EK but with a different bit of flavor.
A pure sorc/DD with focus on the natural attack aspect, cast spells when appropriate but who can also wade into melee in dragon form.
These are typically weapon based builds. A sorc 5/DD build is more about spellcasting and when appropriate going into melee to attack with natural attacks.
Not to mention that the other spontaneous arcane casters can wear armor without worrying about arcane spell chance failure.
These are typically weapon based builds. A sorc 5/DD build is more about spellcasting and when appropriate going into melee to attack with natural attacks.Not to mention that the other spontaneous arcane casters can wear armor without worrying about arcane spell chance failure.
Well if you are going into melee Mage Armor and Shield will get you decently high AC, you can swap out those spells later when you feel they are no longer needed.
But really, level 12 is where it seems like when then sorc 5/DD build comes into it's own, that is when it gets form of the dragon I as a spell like ability.
Well if you are going into melee Mage Armor and Shield will get you decently high AC, you can swap out those spells later when you feel they are no longer needed.
Until higher levels though, Mage Armor doesn't last long enough to be as useful as normal armor. If I had to choose between Mage Armor or Studded Leather armor, I'd go with the Studded Leather because it doesn't have a duration I have to worry about. That's just my way of thinking though.
The Haramaki and Silken Ceremonial Armor(see Ultimate Combat) have no armor check penalty or arcane spell chance failure, so they may be just about the best armor for non-armored spellcasters.
But really, level 12 is where it seems like when then sorc 5/DD build comes into it's own, that is when it gets form of the dragon I as a spell like ability.
No argument there, that's a fun class feature.