Equipment Trick (rope)


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

If I have the Equipment Trick (rope) feat, and can use the Lash trick, does it count as both a whip, and an improvised weapon, for the purposes of feats and abilities?

Grand Lodge

This is the trick, it's in the Pathfinder Society Field Guide:

Lash:
Lash (Weapon Proficiency [whip]): You can use a length
of rope as a whip at no penalty. The piece of rope that is
used as a whip must be 10 feet long—length in excess of
this must remain coiled or otherwise unused at your feet
or side.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
If I have the Equipment Trick (rope) feat, and can use the Lash trick, does it count as both a whip, and an improvised weapon, for the purposes of feats and abilities?

I would say if you're using it as a whip, then it's a whip. If you're using it as an improvised weapon, it's not a whip.

Grand Lodge

Could a Monk of the Open Hand flurry with it, while using it like a whip?

Grand Lodge

Would a Breaker Barbarian get his bonus to damage from his Battle Scavenger ability?


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Could a Monk of the Open Hand flurry with it, while using it like a whip?

It's either a whip (via Equipment Trick) or an improvised weapon (not using Equipment Trick), not both.

Grand Lodge

Could you attack with it as a whip, and an improvised weapon, in the same round?
Would it count either as whip, or an improvised weapon, in all cases, or are there instances where it would count as both?


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Could you attack with it as a whip, and an improvised weapon, in the same round?

I would probably just say to choose each time you use it. You attack with the rope. Either as:

A) Improvised Weapon
or
B) Whip

So if you have multiple attacks, feel free to alternate.

Grand Lodge

Just to be sure. If used as a whip, it is no longer treated as a rope, or an improvised weapon for anything else?


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Just to be sure. If used as a whip, it is no longer treated as a rope, or an improvised weapon for anything else?

State your action and your intent.

"I take a standard action to attack. I'm using this rope as a whip."

Make the attack roll, treat the rope as a whip, not as a rope, or improvised, or anything else.

"I take a move action to throw the end of this rope to my friend hanging onto the cliff."

You're (I assume) tossing the rope as a rope, not a whip.

Keep it whichever way you want for the duration of the action in which you're using it that way.

This is all just how I would rule it, as evidenced by the lack of citation. Other DMs may (and probably will) rule otherwise.

-edit- Actually, I would break up the attacks within a full attack. So even though you're performing one action (full attack) you could choose for each attack if it's a whip or a rope.


That sounds about right.

Grand Lodge

Okay, I will give some examples, to see if they apply.
1) Weapon Focus (whip).
2) Rough and Ready trait attack bonus.
3) Breaker Barbarian archetype bonus to damage.
4) Catch Off-Guard feat's ability to catch opponents flat-footed.
5) Improvised Weapon Mastery feat's increased threat range.
6) Prehensile Whip trait.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Okay, I will give some examples, to see if they apply.

I'm not going to go through all those, so I'll summarize how I would:

Does it apply to an improvised weapon? Then it applies when using option A.

Does it apply to a whip? Then it applies when using option B.

Grand Lodge

So, no matter what, they never count as both, at the same time, yeah?


Yeah.

Grand Lodge

If I am using it as a whip, can I cast magic weapon upon it?


blackbloodtroll wrote:
can I cast magic weapon upon it?

No, 'cause it's not a weapon. It's a rope you're using as a weapon.

Grand Lodge

I am just saying, because it has been stated that when using it as a whip, it is treated as a whip in all ways. Which would suggest that it would be a suitable target for the magic weapon spell. If that is not true, then even when used as a whip, it still counts as an improvised weapon in some ways. Thus my questioning of what applies when it is used this way.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
it has been stated that when using it as a whip, it is treated as a whip in all ways.

Hm. Good point. I guess that makes it a GM call then.


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I'd allow it.

I'd allow it for an improvised weapon as well, though.

Dark Archive

i'd let it have the best of both worlds for the most part

Grand Lodge

This is why I ask indeed. Some feats, class features, traits, or other effects, will apply when using an improvised weapon, and some when using a whip. In this case, it is both, so knowing what, and how these apply, is important. Perhaps one of these said effects provides a bonus to attack rolls with whips, while another provides extra damage to attacks with improvised weapons, now which would apply?

Grand Lodge

Would the Breaker Barbarian's bonus to damage apply?

Grand Lodge

Could a Monk of the Empty Hand flurry with it while using it as a whip at any point during the flurry?

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