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I don't want to be blasphemous but I really don't care for the PFRP current campaign setting. Just like I didn't like Greyhawk for D&D. I feel like Golarion has lost the feel of classic fantasy by adding things like gunslingers. Thus making PFS events lose that feel for me too. I understand that I can just not include them in my home campaign but when I use a setting I like to be able embrace all of it and not feel like I am completely manipulating it and changing what it is. Anyone have thoughts on this? For or against I would like to hear everyones side!
I really dig Golarion, precisely because it has some of everything. I mean, if gunslingers are too high-tech for you, how do you feel about Numeria? But there are other continents yet--we've seen diddly squat about Vudra, right?--and there's always the Vaults, to say nothing of other planets in the system; you can always just set your campaign somewhere else and call it "just like the inner sea without guns."
I hear what you're saying about wanting to embrace the whole setting, but by refusing to just leave out the part you don't like, you're essentially throwing out the entire thing because one aspect doesn't sit well with you. Baby, bathwater, etc, y'know?
I think Golarion is brilliant because it is generic and distinct at once. It is generic in the sense that it can accommodate just about any variation of heroic fantasy and swords and sorcery and each country/region is like a mini-campaign setting; but at the same time the designers have given the setting its own distinct flavor and style so that Varisia is not the same as the Lost Coast in Greyhawk, Cheliax isn't just any old evil empire, Osirion isn't simply Egypt with a name change but has its own unique aspects. I really appreciate that.
So if I were going to run my own campaign (as opposed to using the APs) it would be a simple matter for me to look over what is on offer and just pick that area or region that provides the kind of setting I need and to let my players know what I will or will not allow in that region. So if I want to do a viking saga that is closer to the old sagas, I won't allow samurai, ninja, gunslingers, or even paladins or cavaliers. It's not that I will be saying they don't exist somewhere in Golarion, but they won't enter into the story/campaign. Furthermore, I think all the campaign settings put out such as Greyhawk or Golarion are specifically set up so that it will be easy to find a nation or region that will match anyone's needs with only a little bit of tweaking here and there. I think it's always been understood that these are just sandboxes that are meant to be fiddled with by each gaming group to meet their needs. That is the point of them really. That is why they are so generic and/or have so many differenty styles and genres built into the worlds.
No campaign setting that someone else makes is exactly going to match my vision for a particular story/campaign that I want to tell. If you want something that will exactly match your vision you will really have to do your own world building (and Paizo provides plenty of advice on that in the Game Mastery Guide and Golarion is a great example of how to do it). This is another thing I really really like about Pathfinder though - it is such a great tool kit for doing just about any kind of fantasy setting -
Can I do a Solomon Cane kind of story with a gun toting Inquisitor hunting down the supernatural in the wild corners of the world? Check.
Can I do a Lord of the Rings style orc invasion, held back by a brave alliance of men, elves, and dwarves? Check.
Can I do Pirates of the Caribbean (with or without guns)? Check.
Anyway, I ramble. Bottom line - no published setting could ever match our own vision and they can't possibly try to match the vision of every possible player - so its understood that you will either tweak things to your heart's content or do your own world building and perhaps be inspired by the example of how the designers did their world.
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I love Golarion. It's just so well done. I'm pretty willing to try just about any genre, or particular concept for a setting, so as a rule I care a lot more about the quality of content than I do it's nature and Golarion is top-notch stuff, quality-wise.
That said, I do also really like the gritty feel of Golarion, hearkening back to the likes of Conan or Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser. It's nostalgic without being jarring or inappropriate, and without seeming outdated.
All that said, another (entirely different) campaign setting would be wonderful, assuming equal quality, but is extremely unlikely to happen.
James Jacobs (and, I think, other Paizo folks, too) have specifically addresed this possibility and said it's really unlikely, as any alternate campaign setting would ultimately result in them competing with themselves to some extent (as people chose between buying Golarion related books, and those related to the other setting). Indeed, that very tendency to self-competition is a large part of what caused TSR's downfall, and Paizo's very much striving to avoid repeating history.
No campaign setting that someone else makes is exactly going to match my vision for a particular story/campaign that I want to tell. If you want something that will exactly match your vision you will really have to do your own world building
+1, QFT, &c
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No campaign setting that someone else makes is exactly going to match my vision for a particular story/campaign that I want to tell. If you want something that will exactly match your vision you will really have to do your own world building+1, QFT, &c
I guess I am just spoiled. I LOVED Forgotten Realms. Every corner of Faerun holds a piece of my heart. I am spoiled even further because it crossed over with me from AD&D to 3E and 3.5. It was the later part of its life a few years before 4E that it all started to go wrong. I must say that the destruction of Faerun was kind of a traumatizing event in my life lol. I am embarrassed to admit that I knew the geography of Faerun better than any real location and I could tell you most of the inhabitants of that area as well. I love the classic high fantasy. It had everything. Powerful members of every class that were memorable and not generic at all. This is also not even me going into my secret love affair with Waterdeep! OH THE CITY OF SPLENDOR!
Anyway my point is that it kept all classic elements of fantasy but if you wanted something more specialized you needed to go elsewhere or heavily modify to make room for the weird stuff like guns and samurai. They did do the Khara Tur and the Moonshaes but those were wholey separate from the regular campaign. Also I am currently working on my own campaign but am finding it terrible difficult and this may be why I am so frustrated with Golarion... That and the Andoran looking like Continental Army fighting with polearms and great swords...
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I have tried to find something I like but there is nothing. The point where I finally decided it was hopeless was when I saw as I stated earlier a 1700's Continental army fighting with swords and polearms. No armor. Even LARPers have armor. So I was hoping that there would be some outlet for those of us who just don't care for the current Campaign. I love PF but can't stand Golarion. Sorry and no offense to those who like it. I like to learn to love it. Maybe through some PbP I will learn more about it and like it.
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I have tried to find something I like but there is nothing. The point where I finally decided it was hopeless was when I saw as I stated earlier a 1700's Continental army fighting with swords and polearms. No armor. Even LARPers have armor.
So, one bit of art ruins the whole of Golarion for you?
I get the impression that you are looking at FR through massively rosed-tinted spectactles because it is the one you grew up with.
Then you compare everything else to this uber-FR and it falls short...
If you're going to enjoy another campaign setting then you're probably going to have to start seeing the faults in FR (the cheesy pet NPCs, Maztica, the ridiculous mess of Undermountain, the god-hopping, all of that daft shadow-magic stuff...)
If that's not possible then you should probably just convert grey-box FR to PF yourself and go from there.
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I have tried to find something I like but there is nothing. The point where I finally decided it was hopeless was when I saw as I stated earlier a 1700's Continental army fighting with swords and polearms. No armor.
The artist screwed up, then. Nobody in golarion actually does that. Nor would survive if they did. The actual text of the books makes that very clear indeed.
Don't tell me, say, FR never had some inaccurate and/or awful art. Because it did, all game settings do, and it's hardly a good reason to dislike a setting unless it's the rule, rather than the exception (which isn't true in Pathfinder or Golarion).
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If you just want to avoid samurai and gunslingers set your campaign somewhere in Avistan, those are pretty much quarantined to Alkenstar and the Dragon Empires respectively, and never need to show up unless you choose for them to. And will be odd and looked at strangely even if they do.
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No lol that picture was just what did me in on the whole thing. I love the idea of the PFS events and stuff so I am trying really hard to find stuff I love. I even tried making a gunslinger to try and embrace it all. Who knows. If I can get into some PbP I may turn around. I def. have fond memories of FR because I grew up with it. The god hopping and shadow magic was the slow agonizing death of it after WoC got their dirty mitts on it. Its just that I would like the traditional middle ages castles fantasy where orcs and other monsters roam the wilds and cause trouble. I miss the classic stuff. Golarion is like Eberon. Its just too far out there for me lol if that makes any sense. I guess I'm the only chuckle head that feels like this! Love the input everyone. Thanks for not jumping all over me like some people love to do.
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Its just that I would like the traditional middle ages castles fantasy where orcs and other monsters roam the wilds and cause trouble.
Varisia and Taldor are pretty much exactly like this (in very different ways), actually. :)
Really, all of southern Avistan (as opposed to Garund) is very classic D&D stuff. Well, I guess Andoran's a little out there (but only politically, not so much in day-to-day life or the enemies fought).
I miss the classic stuff. Golarion is like Eberon. Its just too far out there for me lol if that makes any sense. I guess I'm the only chuckle head that feels like this! Love the input everyone. Thanks for not jumping all over me like some people love to do.
What's so out there about it? I'm honestly curious here. I mean, yeah, yeah, Gunslingers and Samurai. But neither of those are common, or even existent throughout the entire area mentioned above. Unless the GM allows a PC one, anyway.
They're very well quarantined well away fom where a classic D&D style game would take place. GMs can lift it, but they in no way are obligated to do so.
And what other 'out there' elements are there? I mean, the existence of guns alone can't be enough to make an entire setting 'out there', can they? I'm honestly curious here.
No lol that picture was just what did me in on the whole thing. I love the idea of the PFS events and stuff so I am trying really hard to find stuff I love. I even tried making a gunslinger to try and embrace it all. Who knows. If I can get into some PbP I may turn around. I def. have fond memories of FR because I grew up with it. The god hopping and shadow magic was the slow agonizing death of it after WoC got their dirty mitts on it. Its just that I would like the traditional middle ages castles fantasy where orcs and other monsters roam the wilds and cause trouble. I miss the classic stuff. Golarion is like Eberon. Its just too far out there for me lol if that makes any sense. I guess I'm the only chuckle head that feels like this! Love the input everyone. Thanks for not jumping all over me like some people love to do.
Focus on varisia - that would be my advice. (though you might have an "out there" problem with kaer maga, i guess). Another possibility would be the river kingdoms.
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No lol that picture was just what did me in on the whole thing. I love the idea of the PFS events and stuff so I am trying really hard to find stuff I love. I even tried making a gunslinger to try and embrace it all. Who knows. If I can get into some PbP I may turn around. I def. have fond memories of FR because I grew up with it. The god hopping and shadow magic was the slow agonizing death of it after WoC got their dirty mitts on it. Its just that I would like the traditional middle ages castles fantasy where orcs and other monsters roam the wilds and cause trouble. I miss the classic stuff. Golarion is like Eberon. Its just too far out there for me lol if that makes any sense. I guess I'm the only chuckle head that feels like this! Love the input everyone. Thanks for not jumping all over me like some people love to do.
Evil archmage coming back from the dead
Ogres take over a fort in the wilderness
Army of giants
Dungeon-crawl to get uber-weapons
Fighting giants, kobolds, etc. and aking alliances with barbarians and centaurs.
Building a castle and becoming king
Competing in a knightly tournament
Seems pretty classic?
Those are the Adventure Paths set in Varisia and The River Kingdoms.
It seems like Shattered Star (Varisia) will be a bit of a classic as well.
My only classic gripe is that, because I grew up on Lord of the Rings, I love fighting orcs and the APs don't have much of that, but the orcs are definitely there.
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I thought it was important to revisit this thread. I have since come to appreciate many of the aspects of Golarion. The fact that I hated gunslingers so much forced me to make one and play one. It was kind of a poorly run game but the character was fun. I still am not in love with this setting as there are freaking space aliens in Numeria. If I pretend I don't know about it though it's not bad. However I wanted to see what people have to say about this Midgard setting I saw in the product line. Isn't this similar Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance in regards to Greyhawk being the default setting and then FR DL coming out as secondary options. Does anyone recommend it?
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I still have a lot left to read, but Midgard is based pretty heavily on the folklore/mythology/history of Eastern and Northern Europe, with some other elements added. That definitely gives it some flavor that Dragonlance or Forgotten Realms lacked. Also while it is Pathfinder compatible, it is not a Paizo product, but rather Open Design/Kobold Press. Which are probably one of the top 3rd party publishers out there now.
There are some more "fabulous" elements of fantasy involved as well.
Clockworks are pretty important to the setting, and can even be player characters.
Airships exist, and the dwarf cantons have primitive guns (although the book says you can easily drop this if you want).
There is also the Mharoti Empire, which is kind of like Medieval expansionist Turkey, if Turkey was run by Dragons and it's main citizens were kobolds, Dragonkin, and drakes.
Honestly, I suspect if you love Forgotten Realms so much, and are not willing to remove/ignore elements, I don't think you will find anything to truly replace FR. Since fluff is mostly rules free, it shouldn't take much to run a pathfinder campaign in Forgotten Realms
I thought it was important to revisit this thread. I have since come to appreciate many of the aspects of Golarion. The fact that I hated gunslingers so much forced me to make one and play one. It was kind of a poorly run game but the character was fun. I still am not in love with this setting as there are freaking space aliens in Numeria.
I find I can live with the crashed spaceship just fine, it's influence is largely limited to an area of Golarion I'm unlikely to even play in and the idea of a crashed spaceship on a fantasy world goes back to the earliest days of AD&D.
It's the idea that there's a high-tech space-faring civilization living in the asteroid belt that drives me up the wall.
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I thought it was important to revisit this thread. I have since come to appreciate many of the aspects of Golarion. The fact that I hated gunslingers so much forced me to make one and play one. It was kind of a poorly run game but the character was fun. I still am not in love with this setting as there are freaking space aliens in Numeria.
I find I can live with the crashed spaceship just fine, it's influence is largely limited to an area of Golarion I'm unlikely to even play in and the idea of a crashed spaceship on a fantasy world goes back to the earliest days of AD&D.
It's the idea that there's a high-tech space-faring civilization living in the asteroid belt that drives me up the wall.
Lol I agree. I would never use that part of the setting. If I was running my own campaign I would either not acknowledge its existence or have a devastating disaster just happen to obliterate that part of the map.
Didn't Forgotten Realms have Spelljammer ties back in AD&D? I know I've read about FR content with aliens and spelljammers landing in Cormyr. Neogi are aliens, as I recall, and weren't the mindflayers time-traveling spacefarers from a distant planet that will be destroyed in the future and already has been destroyed in their past?
Golarion has stuff for pretty much every type of game, but that doesn't mean every game has to include everything.
For my own campaign I said no gunslingers, and samurai and ninja classes are mechanically allowed but will be treated in-character as cavalier and rogue to better fit the setting, their eastern flavor removed.
Didn't Forgotten Realms have Spelljammer ties back in AD&D? I know I've read about FR content with aliens and spelljammers landing in Cormyr. Neogi are aliens, as I recall, and weren't the mindflayers time-traveling spacefarers from a distant planet that will be destroyed in the future and already has been destroyed in their past?
Yes, and I loved Spelljammer, even if I hated the idea of crystal spheres. I'd love to see hammer ships and squid ships make a comeback. I'd love to see Paizo develop that Shadow of the Spider Moon setting they ran in Dungeon Magazine years back.
What I can't stand is the idea of a bunch of guys who sound like they were lifted from a Larry Niven hard sci-fi novel running around in a low-tech system and they're not running the place!
I think Distant Worlds does sort of touch on this. Even though some of the worlds have space travel capability, the distances are still large enough that it isn't easy or cheap to travel from the outer depths of the solar system to Golarion. The Vercites and Eoxians are the only ones in system with much capabilities; I don't think either has anything like a giant armada. And Golarion's nearest neighbors (Aballon, Castrovel, Akiton) do not have any sort of space travel abilities
No lol that picture was just what did me in on the whole thing. I love the idea of the PFS events and stuff so I am trying really hard to find stuff I love. I even tried making a gunslinger to try and embrace it all. Who knows. If I can get into some PbP I may turn around. I def. have fond memories of FR because I grew up with it. The god hopping and shadow magic was the slow agonizing death of it after WoC got their dirty mitts on it. Its just that I would like the traditional middle ages castles fantasy where orcs and other monsters roam the wilds and cause trouble. I miss the classic stuff. Golarion is like Eberon. Its just too far out there for me lol if that makes any sense. I guess I'm the only chuckle head that feels like this! Love the input everyone. Thanks for not jumping all over me like some people love to do.
not trying to jump on you (i also grew up with FR, left it after 4th ed debacle) but Golarion is nothing like Eberron. first thing is that in Eberron magic is the power source and catalyst of technology, religion is bland and rather vague (not that there's anything wrong with that) there is hardly any ethnicity to humanity, elves are way different (on Golarion they are essentially aliens), technology is way more rampant and the whole setting just feels too small.
and i didn't even get to how drow elves and dwarves are based on racist stereotypes (evil dark skin savages and dwarves being greedy with a monopoly on the financial market) there are things about Eberron i like (dinosaur riding halflings) but most i do not