The LGBT Gamer Community Thread.

[Kryzbyn]

GreyWolfLord wrote:

Here's a very sad story of discrimination.

Guy tricked into taking a job where he has to move to a new place, and then get fired in less than two weeks because they wanted to discriminate.

I think this was just out and out deception on the company's part. That this can happen to a person is just wrong.

Saw this on facebook. As a Nebraksan this irritates me that it happened here, but not suprising, tbh.

As a Christian, it infuriates me that being such was used as an excuse to treat folks this way.
I can't help but think it was Cabela's that did this. It's the only major national hunting/sporting/camping store I can think of that started and is owned by Nebraskans.
Until I hear otherwise, they will no longer get my business.

[thejeff]

Terquem wrote:

Any person who honestly believes people will be better behaved, nobler, kinder, or more responsible if rules (even poorly understood rules)are removed, frightens me in a very real way.

What about bad rules?

I'm not really sure what the context you're talking about is. Are there specific rules you have in mind? Poorly understood or not.

In some cases rules prevent people from behaving better, nobly, kindly or more responsibly.

[Terquem]

My opinion is that rules do not normally begin life as "bad rules" but that they become that way when someone finds a way around, under, or over the rule to their benefit. This then makes "gov'ment" types try to fix the rules, which leads to people finding new ways to go over, under or around the new fixes (and this, also in my opinion, is just simple human nature, if you can find something that works to your advantage, you will most likely use it, even a "good" person trying to follow the rules will do this, it's what we do to get by).

So then people come along (I'm going to pick on Libertarians here, but please don't think I mean ALL libertarians)who crow loudly about how "gov'ment" regulation is the problem and preach such things as "people are inherently good and will do the right thing so they should not need so many complicated rules."

Now, I do believe people are inherently good, and will usually do the right thing, but when rules are made to keep a company from putting poison in our food, it seems like at some point you need to acknowledge that there are companies who will put poison in our food (it's only a little poison, and it makes our profits go up, where's the harm?)

And it is the same with marriage. If a company will lose profits by letting you (hetero or otherwise) have access to another persons property, hospital bills, school lunch program, insurance carrier, then they will do that, not because they are mean, or bad, or some other thing that you don't like, but because they can, and if they can they will. So our "gov'ment" needed to make rules to allow people to force the issue, get those rights that would be denied, and if the "gov'ment" is going to make a rule that gives a married couple certain rights, then those rights should be applied to whatever is defined as a "married couple" by the same "gov'ment." Now if the "gov'ment" decides that the people think a marriage could be any number of adults in a cooperative partnership for the purpose of raising children, or sustaining a household where people of any age need support that they cannot provide by themselves, I'd be for that. In fact I'm for the definition of Marriage being any consensual contractual arrangement between any number of adults of age legally able to enter into a contract such that the responsibly of caring for the young, elderly, or infirmed is provided by and shared by all parties to the contract, or any number of adults seeking to enter into a contractual arrangement that provides a benefit to the parties for the purpose of mutual support.

I mean for crying out loud, LLC's were formed so that a "company" of people could go right down the drain and no creditors could confiscate the property of the "people" (only the property of the corporation), and now, corporations are actually in some ways considered "people," doesn't that in essence prove the "how laws are broken by people who want to get around the laws" idea?

Marriage for all who are legally able to enter into a binding contract

[Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert]

I'm not bisexual, so I admittedly lack the full perspective on what's going on, but it seems to me that bisexuals are generally getting more bigoted crap from lesbians and gays than us trans people are. Why do people pull out that crap like how bis are either gay or straight, or dating the opposite sex means you are straight, or that bis are untrustworthy, or that dating the opposite sex is treasonous? I've seen all of this from the mouths of gays and lesbians, and I can't help but wonder what the hell their problem is.

[Yuugasa]

Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert wrote:

I'm not bisexual, so I admittedly lack the full perspective on what's going on, but it seems to me that bisexuals are generally getting more bigoted crap from lesbians and gays than us trans people are. Why do people pull out that crap like how bis are either gay or straight, or dating the opposite sex means you are straight, or that bis are untrustworthy, or that dating the opposite sex is treasonous? I've seen all of this from the mouths of gays and lesbians, and I can't help but wonder what the hell their problem is.

I've actually been on the receiving end of this recently, I'm not sure what it is about exactly. What I've picked up on so far is that somehow being bi is inherently threatening to certain gay men and women and it seems to be the same people whose sexual identity and "team" are of greater than normal importance to them. Maybe we are seen as infiltrators or wishy washy dabblers or something?

[Freehold DM]

Some people really really love the t shirt and get upset when other people won't wear it even if they are partially down with the members of the clubhouse.

[lynora]

Yeah, it seems to be an us or them kind of thing. I used to get really upset about this whole idea of having to pick a team as it were and spent a lot of time driving myself a little bit nuts trying to figure it out. And then I decided that I belong to team I'm not playing this game and nobody gets to tell me that what I know to be true about myself is wrong. That way lies madness.
Honestly like most things that involve one human being picking on another, it's about someone feeling insecure about something.

[Ambrosia Slaad]

Yuugasa wrote:

Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert wrote:

I'm not bisexual, so I admittedly lack the full perspective on what's going on, but it seems to me that bisexuals are generally getting more bigoted crap from lesbians and gays than us trans people are. Why do people pull out that crap like how bis are either gay or straight, or dating the opposite sex means you are straight, or that bis are untrustworthy, or that dating the opposite sex is treasonous? I've seen all of this from the mouths of gays and lesbians, and I can't help but wonder what the hell their problem is.

I've actually been on the receiving end of this recently, I'm not sure what it is about exactly. What I've picked up on so far is that somehow being bi is inherently threatening to certain gay men and women and it seems to be the same people whose sexual identity and "team" are of greater than normal importance to them. Maybe we are seen as infiltrators or wishy washy dabblers or something?

Primates love social hierarchies. Even the ones near the bottom of the social ladder often attempt to feel better by exerting authority over the few beneath them. I confess that in high school, I was pretty far down the ladder, and I often tried to take it out on those even less popular than me. I figured out what I'd been doing once I had graduated, but it was too late to prevent the psychological damage I'm certain I contributed too; I haven't even been able to find them to apologize. I hate so many of the lessons I learned in school.

[Haladir]

Dan Savage on bisexulaity and bi-phobia. (Article from 2011, but he has repeated the same points recently.)

His thesis is that a lot of young gay people self-identify as bi for a little while as part of their coming out process-- especially if they had dated an opposite-sex partner for a while. Savage did so himself. [Note: Anecdotally, all of my gay friends (in the 30+ age bracket) did the same.] Savage poses that many gays and lesbians don't accept a self-identification of "bi" from young people at face value because of that experience.

[mechaPoet]

Haladir wrote:

Dan Savage on bisexulaity and bi-phobia. (Article from 2011, but he has repeated the same points recently.)

His thesis is that a lot of young gay people self-identify as bi for a little while as part of their coming out process-- especially if they had dated an opposite-sex partner for a while. Savage did so himself. [Note: Anecdotally, all of my gay friends (in the 30+ age bracket) did the same.] Savage poses that many gays and lesbians don't accept a self-identification of "bi" from young people at face value because of that experience.

Dan Savage is also, in this article and noted elsewhere, a huuuuuuuuuge a!$#!!&.

[KSF]

Nevada and Idaho join the marriage club.

[Artemis Moonstar]

Yuugasa wrote:

Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert wrote:

I'm not bisexual, so I admittedly lack the full perspective on what's going on, but it seems to me that bisexuals are generally getting more bigoted crap from lesbians and gays than us trans people are. Why do people pull out that crap like how bis are either gay or straight, or dating the opposite sex means you are straight, or that bis are untrustworthy, or that dating the opposite sex is treasonous? I've seen all of this from the mouths of gays and lesbians, and I can't help but wonder what the hell their problem is.

I've actually been on the receiving end of this recently, I'm not sure what it is about exactly. What I've picked up on so far is that somehow being bi is inherently threatening to certain gay men and women and it seems to be the same people whose sexual identity and "team" are of greater than normal importance to them. Maybe we are seen as infiltrators or wishy washy dabblers or something?

No idea, but I've been hit with it myself. Not so much recently, probably because I'm cresting the upper half of my 20s so it might have more credibility... But for me, it ranged anywhere between "bi doesn't exist" to "so you're a total slut then?"...

Really gets annoying when people assume you'll jump anything with a hole or a rod just because you're bi. Especially when it comes from the LGBT community. To which, I simply reply, "So... You're saying the same thing about me that people were saying about you in the 60s or so?"

I honestly wonder if it's a matter of whether they are secure in their own sexuality at that point. I once met a guy who was, and I don't mean to offend anyone by this, a total flamer. I mean, take every gay stereotype concerning voice, vocabulary, and state of dress you see on sitcoms (from stuff like "Oh. My. God. Oh no you di'nt! That's just deliciously fabtastic!" to swaying his entire body and waving their palm infront of my face). Bragging about how many guys he'd slept with, like it was some sort of contest. I was just sitting there going "So, who are you trying to convince? Me, or you?"... To which, when I finally couldn't take it anymore and said so, he turned it up.. Like.. Past 11.

Sometimes people seriously make me wonder about their psychological state. Or, more specifically, their security with who they are. Then again, not everyone can just say "screw it, i like me, go suck a donkey" and not give a damn what anyone thinks about 'em.

Edit: Don't care if anyone hates me, but, seriously... Such is why I hate "metro". "Hetero-homosexual" as it was described to me at one point. I laughed my ass off for a good ten minutes. Metro is a fad, not a sexuality, stop cashing in on the discriminated like you did the Goths and the Emos! *twitch*

[Freehold DM]

Artemis Moonstar wrote:

Yuugasa wrote:

Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert wrote:

I'm not bisexual, so I admittedly lack the full perspective on what's going on, but it seems to me that bisexuals are generally getting more bigoted crap from lesbians and gays than us trans people are. Why do people pull out that crap like how bis are either gay or straight, or dating the opposite sex means you are straight, or that bis are untrustworthy, or that dating the opposite sex is treasonous? I've seen all of this from the mouths of gays and lesbians, and I can't help but wonder what the hell their problem is.

I've actually been on the receiving end of this recently, I'm not sure what it is about exactly. What I've picked up on so far is that somehow being bi is inherently threatening to certain gay men and women and it seems to be the same people whose sexual identity and "team" are of greater than normal importance to them. Maybe we are seen as infiltrators or wishy washy dabblers or something?

No idea, but I've been hit with it myself. Not so much recently, probably because I'm cresting the upper half of my 20s so it might have more credibility... But for me, it ranged anywhere between "bi doesn't exist" to "so you're a total slut then?"...

Really gets annoying when people assume you'll jump anything with a hole or a rod just because you're bi. Especially when it comes from the LGBT community. To which, I simply reply, "So... You're saying the same thing about me that people were saying about you in the 60s or so?"

I honestly wonder if it's a matter of whether they are secure in their own sexuality at that point. I once met a guy who was, and I don't mean to offend anyone by this, a total flamer. I mean, take every gay stereotype concerning voice, vocabulary, and state of dress you see on sitcoms (from stuff like "Oh. My. God. Oh no you di'nt! That's just deliciously fabtastic!" to swaying his entire body and waving their palm infront of my face). Bragging about how many guys he'd slept with, like it was...

My former roomie was so metro it wasn't funny. He was the biggest slob I have ever met, but my GOD, his sense of style and toilette was AMAZING....

[Freehold DM]

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:

Yuugasa wrote:

Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert wrote:

I'm not bisexual, so I admittedly lack the full perspective on what's going on, but it seems to me that bisexuals are generally getting more bigoted crap from lesbians and gays than us trans people are. Why do people pull out that crap like how bis are either gay or straight, or dating the opposite sex means you are straight, or that bis are untrustworthy, or that dating the opposite sex is treasonous? I've seen all of this from the mouths of gays and lesbians, and I can't help but wonder what the hell their problem is.

I've actually been on the receiving end of this recently, I'm not sure what it is about exactly. What I've picked up on so far is that somehow being bi is inherently threatening to certain gay men and women and it seems to be the same people whose sexual identity and "team" are of greater than normal importance to them. Maybe we are seen as infiltrators or wishy washy dabblers or something?

Primates love social hierarchies. Even the ones near the bottom of the social ladder often attempt to feel better by exerting authority over the few beneath them. I confess that in high school, I was pretty far down the ladder, and I often tried to take it out on those even less popular than me. I figured out what I'd been doing once I had graduated, but it was too late to prevent the psychological damage I'm certain I contributed too; I haven't even been able to find them to apologize. I hate so many of the lessons I learned in school.

hugs

[KSF]

Agree with the general sentiment in this thread. The stuff bi people get thrown at them is ridiculous.

[Tirisfal]

Artemis Moonstar wrote:

But for me, it ranged anywhere between "bi doesn't exist" to "so you're a total slut then?"...

Same. I've been told that because I'm married to a woman, I'm actually straight and that I'm making it up just want to be "a part of their club", or because I'm effeminate I'm totally gay and she's just my beard, or I'm asked if there's "someone else" besides her.

My best friend, who is also bi but totally tone def to about 99% of things, told me the other day that I'm, quote, "the gayest dude married to a woman [she]'s ever met", which is really hurtful.

[Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert]

*Sigh* These prigs belong to the love and tolerance advocacy club. They need to start acting like it.

[Yuugasa]

lynora wrote:

Yeah, it seems to be an us or them kind of thing. I used to get really upset about this whole idea of having to pick a team as it were and spent a lot of time driving myself a little bit nuts trying to figure it out. And then I decided that I belong to team I'm not playing this game and nobody gets to tell me that what I know to be true about myself is wrong. That way lies madness.

Honestly like most things that involve one human being picking on another, it's about someone feeling insecure about something.

It is funny (read: annoying) how we live in a world where so many people want to help us out by telling us what is wrong with us and/or how we should think and feel. If I internalized half the things people projected onto me in my life I'd be some weird Frankenstein-like conglomeration of stereotypes, backwards ideas, and bizarre prejudices from all the contradictory boxes people have tried to force me into.

My mom actually gave me some really good advice growing up about this. She said that a person should never listen to "Voices that don't pay rent." Basically the idea was that if someones opinion about you or about how you should live your life impedes you from learning and growing and being true to your genuine self then you should toss that voice outta your brain instead of internalizing it, because they certainly aren't contributing to your well being.

While it's perhaps ironic that it is this advice that makes it so I don't listen to her about 90% of her opinions anymore it has been super useful advice in my life.

[Yuugasa]

I actually really appreciate the metro sexual trend. Having been the target of sometimes hostile "gay suspicion" all my life for being super clean, well dressed, and noticeably nice smelling metros have taken a lot of pressure off me.

Now when strangers see me they don't assume I'm gay, they just think I'm a douche.

[Yuugasa]

@ Artemis While some of the above was a joke...Yeah the more I think about it while I can kinda understand your hatred for Metro it seems to me like a close to all positive thing, at least if you are willing to put aside the cultural appropriation stuff.

An increasing population of men being clean and stylish, while learning good taste? If this is how the world ends sign me up.

[Krensky]

Randall Munroe's commentary on marriage equality.

[Lissa Guillet]

One of my really straight hipster friends goes on and on about pocket squares as much as he does about gaming. The dude is super sharp in his seersucker jacket and pipe and expensive shoes of which he has more than two pairs.

[Ambrosia Slaad]

So bittersweet: [Naples Daily News] "Fort Myers woman recognized by state on long-time partner's death certificate"

I really hate that Gov. Scott and AG Bondi are still fighting equality in my state.

[Tirisfal]

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:

So bittersweet: [Naples Daily News] "Fort Myers woman recognized by state on long-time partner's death certificate"

I really hate that Gov. Scott and AG Bondi are still fighting equality in my state.

Scott hates education, too.

[Yuugasa]

Oh wait, *facepalm* reading back just now, I didn't mean to imply the traits of cleanliness and style haven't always existed in large numbers of straight males or that those things are directly tied to sexuality.

Man what's been with me recently? I haven't been saying things in a way I would prefer.

Quick, a distraction!

How about a bizarre musical interlude of rapid outfit changes, possessed dancing body parts and Lorde staring into the camera for three and a half minutes.

Also The Hypno Toad

*dusts off hands* A job well done...

[Krensky]

I find it amusing that 'metrosexuality' is considered something new and unmasculine.

[KSF]

Yuugasa wrote:

Also The Hypno Toad

All hail the Hypno Toad.

[Paladin of Baha-who?]

All hail the glow cloud. Wait, what?

Oh, wrong pop culture reference.

Regarding Bis; Part of it is that bis are invisible unless we take specific actions to reveal ourselves. If a guy has a boyfriend, he's seen as gay; if he has a girlfriend, he's seen as straight. We have to take additional steps to say "Hey, I like [gender my partner isn't] too!" This is a privilege on the whole, insulating us from homophobia, but a mixed one in that it contributes to biphobia.

[Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert]

Krensky wrote:

I find it amusing that 'metrosexuality' is considered something new and unmasculine.

...

...

...

As a historian, I should have made the connection between upper class aristocratic behaviors and metrosexuality long before you said that. I shall flog myself most severely.

[Rysky]

Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert wrote:

Krensky wrote:

I find it amusing that 'metrosexuality' is considered something new and unmasculine.

...

...

...

As a historian, I should have made the connection between upper class aristocratic behaviors and metrosexuality long before you said that. I shall flog myself most severely.

Nah, do something you don't enjoy instead.

[Yuugasa]

Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert wrote:

Krensky wrote:

I find it amusing that 'metrosexuality' is considered something new and unmasculine.

...

...

...

As a historian, I should have made the connection between upper class aristocratic behaviors and metrosexuality long before you said that. I shall flog myself most severely.

Actually you don't even have to go back very far to find something like popular androgyny or something a bit like Metro right here in the states. An anecdote from Charlie Murphy is prolly the funniest way to explain.

Edit: Once again talking in only vague generalities =)

[Limeylongears]

Where does metrosexuality end and dandyism begin, I wonder? Were fops just c18th metrosexuals?

Manscaping (!!) article 1

No.2

Both may be relevant; no.2 is also of interest if you enjoy the sight of a damp Daniel Craig with no top on.

If I never hear or see the word 'boyzilian' again, I won't be sorry.

[Krensky]

The primary dividing line between a fop and a dandy was, essentially, that a dandy had class and had something going on in their head rather than just fashion and leisure.

For a convenient fiction example: Sir Percy Blakeney, The Scarlet Pimpernel, is a dandy. Sir Percy's public persona, however, is a fop.

A good literary example of late Dandyism would be Hercule Poirot.

Kelsey,

You're forgetting that Dandyism was more a thing of the upper middle class and the non-aristocratic wealthy class that the aristocracy followed along on. Dudeism was similarly a concern of the well to do middle class and 'nouveau riche' in the Eastern (primarily north eastern) US. The 'original' Dandy was very wealthy commoner associate of George IV, Beau Brummell.

It's also funny to me that androgyny was brought up, because Dandyism was considered very masculine and defines much of what even today is part of being a refined and cultured gentleman.

[TerminalArtiste]

Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:

Regarding Bis; Part of it is that bis are invisible unless we take specific actions to reveal ourselves. If a guy has a boyfriend, he's seen as gay; if he has a girlfriend, he's seen as straight. We have to take additional steps to say "Hey, I like [gender my partner isn't] too!" This is a privilege on the whole, insulating us from homophobia, but a mixed one in that it contributes to biphobia.

Yes. Heteronormativity plays right into bisexual erasure that way, and it's like a one-two punch for us bi folks.

Also: This 'straight-passing privilege' doesn't even shield all of us equally; as a homoromantic bisexual, if I'm in a relationship at all, it invalidates that 'privilege.'

[mechaPoet]

TerminalArtiste wrote:

Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:

Regarding Bis; Part of it is that bis are invisible unless we take specific actions to reveal ourselves. If a guy has a boyfriend, he's seen as gay; if he has a girlfriend, he's seen as straight. We have to take additional steps to say "Hey, I like [gender my partner isn't] too!" This is a privilege on the whole, insulating us from homophobia, but a mixed one in that it contributes to biphobia.

Yes. Heteronormativity plays right into bisexual erasure that way, and it's like a one-two punch for us bi folks.

Also: This 'straight-passing privilege' doesn't even shield all of us equally; as a homoromantic bisexual, if I'm in a relationship at all, it invalidates that 'privilege.'

Another part of that erasure is, of course, media representation. Like how the new Constantine movie in the works, based on the comics, has decided that Constantine will only have female romances, even though he's quite clearly bi in the comics.

[TerminalArtiste]

mechaPoet wrote:

TerminalArtiste wrote:

Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:

Regarding Bis; Part of it is that bis are invisible unless we take specific actions to reveal ourselves. If a guy has a boyfriend, he's seen as gay; if he has a girlfriend, he's seen as straight. We have to take additional steps to say "Hey, I like [gender my partner isn't] too!" This is a privilege on the whole, insulating us from homophobia, but a mixed one in that it contributes to biphobia.

Yes. Heteronormativity plays right into bisexual erasure that way, and it's like a one-two punch for us bi folks.

Also: This 'straight-passing privilege' doesn't even shield all of us equally; as a homoromantic bisexual, if I'm in a relationship at all, it invalidates that 'privilege.'

Another part of that erasure is, of course, media representation. Like how the new Constantine movie in the works, based on the comics, has decided that Constantine will only have female romances, even though he's quite clearly bi in the comics.

consternated bisexual muttering

I'm not even especially a fan of Constantine, but the fact that we could have some bisexual representation but we're not because 'he's barely bi in the comics' is literally the lamest erasure I've ever heard.

[thejeff]

mechaPoet wrote:

Another part of that erasure is, of course, media representation. Like how the new Constantine movie in the works, based on the comics, has decided that Constantine will only have female romances, even though he's quite clearly bi in the comics.

Quite clearly is a bit of a stretch. It would be very easy to read the comics for years without knowing he was bi.

It was 4 years into his title (and more since the character's introduction before there was a throwaway, one-line reference to "the occasional boyfriend". And then more years before they actually show a relationship with a man and that was a con job.

Would it really be better if the show followed the same pattern?

Edit: Obviously, they could have taken those hints and played it up. But then they could make pretty much any new character and many adapted ones bi nearly as easily.

I also really doubt that'll be the biggest change in Constantine's character.

[Yuugasa]

There is a fun question to ask, what are folks favorite LGBTQ characters from fiction? ...aside from beloved pathfinder iconics? =p

[Lilith]

Yuugasa wrote:

There is a fun question to ask, what are folks favorite LGBTQ characters from fiction? ...aside from beloved pathfinder iconics? =p

Kaidan Alenko from Mass Effect.

Dean Winchester from Supernatural. (Not sure it's ever called out specifically in the series, but that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.)

[mechaPoet]

Lilith wrote:

Yuugasa wrote:

There is a fun question to ask, what are folks favorite LGBTQ characters from fiction? ...aside from beloved pathfinder iconics? =p

Kaidan Alenko from Mass Effect.

Dean Winchester from Supernatural. (Not sure it's ever called out specifically in the series, but that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.)

Wait, what? Is he revealed to be bi in one of the later games? I don't remember him being anything but a cishet guy...

Spoiler:

Then again, I picked Ashley over him in ME1...never ended up using either of them very much anyway.

[Haladir]

Yuugasa wrote:

There is a fun question to ask, what are folks favorite LGBTQ characters from fiction? ...aside from beloved pathfinder iconics? =p

Captain Jack Harkness from Doctor Who / Torchwood.

[Yuugasa]

mechaPoet wrote:

Lilith wrote:

Yuugasa wrote:

There is a fun question to ask, what are folks favorite LGBTQ characters from fiction? ...aside from beloved pathfinder iconics? =p

Kaidan Alenko from Mass Effect.

Dean Winchester from Supernatural. (Not sure it's ever called out specifically in the series, but that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.)

Wait, what? Is he revealed to be bi in one of the later games? I don't remember him being anything but a cishet guy...

** spoiler omitted **

Huh, I didn't realize that either. I looked it up, apparently if you share a drink with him at one point in ME3 he can become a love interest for male Shepard, I guess I missed that knowledge cause I always play a female Shepard.

[Liranys]

Haladir wrote:

Yuugasa wrote:

There is a fun question to ask, what are folks favorite LGBTQ characters from fiction? ...aside from beloved pathfinder iconics? =p

Captain Jack Harkness from Doctor Who / Torchwood.

This. So this. And Vanyel and Firesong (from a book series not movie but this didn't specify tv fiction)

[Lilith]

Yuugasa wrote:

Huh, I didn't realize that either. I looked it up, apparently if you share a drink with him at one point in ME3 he can become a love interest for male Shepard, I guess I missed that knowledge cause I always play a female Shepard.

Yeah, a friend of mine specifically picked up the ME series once Kaidan was a romance option for mShep for ME3. (The fact that there is a severe lack of gay romance options for mShep in ME1 and ME2 is...disheartening to say the least. I have a rant on this particular topic, but I'll save it for later, as it's not terribly cohesive and mostly incoherent grousing.)

[Yuugasa]

Lilith wrote:

Yuugasa wrote:

Huh, I didn't realize that either. I looked it up, apparently if you share a drink with him at one point in ME3 he can become a love interest for male Shepard, I guess I missed that knowledge cause I always play a female Shepard.

Yeah, a friend of mine specifically picked up the ME series once Kaidan was a romance option for mShep for ME3. (The fact that there is a severe lack of gay romance options for mShep in ME1 and ME2 is...disheartening to say the least. I have a rant on this particular topic, but I'll save it for later, as it's not terribly cohesive and mostly incoherent grousing.)

Grumbling about video game design choices? That's one of my favorite hobbies! You simply must share your rant with me sometime.

[Artemis Moonstar]

*jots down notes*

Also, they're not major characters, but I gotta say I really love how Fallout New Vegas included a metric ton of LGBT. Particularly, I have to say, their Cherchez Le Femme/Confirmed Bachelor perks, and relevant unique dialogue options.

Play a male Courier with Confirmed Bachelor some time. You get FREE repairs from Major Knight at the Mojave Outpost, can skip a primary-story quest (Come Fly With Me) thanks to flirting with Manny Vargas, and of course, my favorite to listen to... Get flirted with by the doctor in Camp Forlorn Hope.

I haven't tried out Cherchez Le Femme for fCouriers, and all I can recall of it was when my fiance picked it up for her character to try it out. It's definitely lacking in comparison, and the only thing we really remember is getting hit on by Corporal Betsy in Camp McCarran, and some hilarious dialogue with Cass.

There's some other stuff I can't recall, but it was all over the place. Listening to some of the background blabber, and some of the stuff you read on some terminals. Actually made me quite happy how much there was...

Concerning Manny Vargas, and Boone's companion quest:

I am convinced Manny had the hots for Boone, and the two of them were likely friends with benefits. Why else would he be so pissed with Boone's wife, and happy when she gets taken by Legion? I don't care what anyone else says, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it. *ships that ship*

[Kajehase]

Yuugasa wrote:

There is a fun question to ask, what are folks favorite LGBTQ characters from fiction? ...aside from beloved pathfinder iconics? =p

I'm weirdly fond of Ellen Kushner's borderline sociopathic swordsman Richard St. Vier from Swordspoint and The Privilege of the Sword.

My love for Jacqueline Carey's Kushielverse novels certainly extends to its main protagonists - my favourite, if I have to pick one, is probably Moirin Mac Fanche from the Naamah trilogy, she's less melodramatic than Phèdre, and a lot more fun than Imriel.

And for a blink-and-you'll-miss-it candidate, I'll include a mention of Commander Susan Ivanova of Babylon 5

Honourable mention to Winter Ihernglass from Django Wexler's Shadow Campaigns series.

[Kajehase]

Hmm... that second sentence could probably do with a semi-colon.

[Mikaze]

@Freehold DM: I'll PM ya when they're fit for consumption. :)

KSF wrote:

Filed my court petition for my legal name change today. One month till the actual court date. (Then begins the running around and getting my name and gender changed on my license and everywhere else.)

Belated grats! :D

Yuugasa wrote:

There is a fun question to ask, what are folks favorite LGBTQ characters from fiction? ...aside from beloved pathfinder iconics? =p

Cripes, how to narrow it down....

Just to pick one that's been on the mind lately, Vanyel Ashkevron from the Last Herald-Mage trilogy.

Yes he was incredibly angsty. Yes he was a bit camp. Hey, I related. :) He's either near or at the top of my list of fictional characters I wish I had been introduced to earlier in life.

If I kept going I'd never stop.

edit:If we accept fanon, Cecil Harvey and Kain Highwind. Especially after hitting that Final Fantasy IV OT3 motherlode.

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:

Yuugasa wrote:

Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert wrote:

I'm not bisexual, so I admittedly lack the full perspective on what's going on, but it seems to me that bisexuals are generally getting more bigoted crap from lesbians and gays than us trans people are. Why do people pull out that crap like how bis are either gay or straight, or dating the opposite sex means you are straight, or that bis are untrustworthy, or that dating the opposite sex is treasonous? I've seen all of this from the mouths of gays and lesbians, and I can't help but wonder what the hell their problem is.

I've actually been on the receiving end of this recently, I'm not sure what it is about exactly. What I've picked up on so far is that somehow being bi is inherently threatening to certain gay men and women and it seems to be the same people whose sexual identity and "team" are of greater than normal importance to them. Maybe we are seen as infiltrators or wishy washy dabblers or something?

Primates love social hierarchies. Even the ones near the bottom of the social ladder often attempt to feel better by exerting authority over the few beneath them. I confess that in high school, I was pretty far down the ladder, and I often tried to take it out on those even less popular than me. I figured out what I'd been doing once I had graduated, but it was too late to prevent the psychological damage I'm certain I contributed too; I haven't even been able to find them to apologize. I hate so many of the lessons I learned in school.

also hugs

You're definitely not alone with those sorts of regrets. I don't think there are many of us who are entirely innocent of the casual cruelties that were so easy to hand out during those teenage years. I wish I could find all those that I hurt, trying to keep hidden and shift attention away from myself to hold onto the acceptance I had. For the most part, we may have to settle for never again saying or doing the things we wish he hadn't and remembering to say and do the things we wish we had.

The pecking order game is such a vicious, petty, and utterly useless one. I wish I had stopped playing earlier than I did. Wish I'd never played along at all.

[Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert]

For some inexplicable reason, I decided to attend the school LGBT club. Turns out we just voted on new officers, and we didn't have an election so much as we had a purge. With the Mean Girls crowd out of office, maybe there is some hope for the club after all.