Ok this started in another thread, but now im curious. What is the best build for our friendly neighborhood Spider-Man
Generally rogue or monk with a few special powers.
wizard, cast fly, the web for getting around town are illusions, and others are the "web" spell.
The rest is good acrobatics and a magic costume.
I disagree with wizard. Spiderman isn't a wizard at all. He isn't that smart, he doesn't cast spells and isn't overly magical.
It's better to just add some custom power. Or, if you want to go the magical route, permanent spider climb.
Well, there's also spider climb...probably jump too.
I would want some kind of danger sense as well, and that probably means improved evasion.
I would argue that the radioactive spider gave him a template, and then go rogue or monk from there.
Remember, a lot of Spider-Man is crazy good stats. He can pick up a car, so you can start there and calculate strength. Dexterity is higher than that.
Or, find a 3.5 compatible super-hero game, and build him that way, and carry it back into pathfinder.
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In 3.5, I'd go with a Warlock, using the at-will spider climb invocation and some sort of entangling effect added to the Eldritch Blast (I think there's one for Dragonfire Adepts, called Entangling Exhalation, but I don't recall if there's one for Eldritch Blasts...).
Maybe a custom invocation to represent a 'spider-sense,' that functions like entropic shield, or something (the miss chance representing the attack avoidance), or another one that allows boosting one's non-combat Strength checks for 'spider-strength' (with Eldritch Glaive representing the super-strong punches).
monk/Ninja/Warlock (3.5) with specalized powers is probably the best blend.
I actually made a decent fantasy setting spiderman once with a halfling Monk/Barbarian (ignoreing the alignment thing). He had specalized bracers that did some web shooty things.
I disagree with wizard. Spiderman isn't a wizard at all. He isn't that smart, he doesn't cast spells and isn't overly magical.
It's better to just add some custom power. Or, if you want to go the magical route, permanent spider climb.
I don't think I'd say Peter Parker is not that smart. I mean he made a vampire (accidentally but still) and bypassed the security measures on his stark costume during civil war.
why would he as a wizard have a high int?
13 is enough to cast fly, web, and silent image, his higher level slots are just filled up with that, because he needs a lot.
But seriously, making comic book character in PF always has flaws, the rogue, just as much as the wizard, my idea wasn't 100% serious.
I could just aswell have said that he's a lvl 20 wizard who casts wish " I want to be like spiderman".
I disagree with wizard. Spiderman isn't a wizard at all. He isn't that smart, he doesn't cast spells and isn't overly magical.
It's better to just add some custom power. Or, if you want to go the magical route, permanent spider climb.
In every continuity spiderman is a brilliant scientist and makes huge deductive leaps.
I would say master of many styles, using snake, panther and crane style, with a crafting feat to create web shooters, slippers of spider climb/striding and springing, a belt of hysical might +6 and a headband of wisdom +6 once he has the requisite 3 styles blending and deflect arrows from monk, I'd say ten levels in ninja for the jump dc reduction, with a focus on the sap master feats, since spidey always takes them in alive.
*claps* Ah ha a true nerd gathering!
I would be more inclined to agree with those that say monk or possibly rogue.
The short answer to the OP is 'there isn't one'. As GM, you could probably identify stats, feats and spell-like abilities which would allow you to create an NPC spider-man but as a rules legal PC, forget it. (He has a strength of 48, for example). Many years ago we tried to make Spiderman in Champions (the Superhero Role Playing Game) and we barely managed it with a set of rules specifically designed to allow this.
The short answer to the OP is 'there isn't one'. As GM, you could probably identify stats, feats and spell-like abilities which would allow you to create an NPC spider-man but as a rules legal PC, forget it. (He has a strength of 48, for example). Many years ago we tried to make Spiderman in Champions (the Superhero Role Playing Game) and we barely managed it with a set of rules specifically designed to allow this.
Yeah, I figured it wouldn't work. I was just curious what people would think of options within the world to make it close.
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You can't get it to work perfectly, but a level 7 Magus can cast Force Hook Charge to get the web slinging aspect, can cast Spider Climb, web. Take the Magus Arcana Spell Shield to add shield bonus to AC as an immediate action for his spider sense. Then take improved unarmed strike feat to give him the ability to fight with his fists. Lastly get a character trait that will make Acrobatics a class skill.
That's the best I could do.
Ridiculous stats, obviously.
For the spider sense - improved uncanny dodge, improved evasion, blind-fight, big deflection bonus to AC.
For the web - effectively flight, shield spell, feather fall, wall of force, hold person, probably some other stuff (though, amusingly, probably not web) all as 'at will' spell like abilities.
Fighting - probably best represented by high level monk flurry of blows (you'll frequently see Spidey subduing a number of npcs in a single combat round) but he won't get monk Ki abilities I don't think.
And permanent spider climb of course.
Plenty of skill points - knowledges, craft, acrobatics, stealth, bluff, intimidate, perception, climb, swim, disable device, escape artist, disguise (voice mostly), fly.
Might also give him a barbarian rage, there have been a number of times when he has pushed himself to extreme feats because he is angry.
http://www.rpgnow.com/product/17823/Four-Color-to-Fantasy-(Revised)?it=1&am p;filters=600_0_0
Like all point buy systems, horribly abusable-- but it's just about the best tool for DMs to build balanced +CR templates I've ever seen.
Spider sense = Forewarned
Find a way to dip into wizard/diviner for at least a level. Three levels will get you Spider Climb.
Maybe Alchemist. Mutagen for higher Dex. Bombs of tanglefoot bags for webbing.
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Probably go with a good rogue archetype and take Craft Magical Arms and Armor to make things like bracers of Web and Gloves of Spider-Climb. Then go Improved Unarmed Strike or something along those lines so he can fight enemies with his fists and whatnot. Also, Uncanny Dodge, Spring Attack, and Evasion are musts. He'd have amazing Dex (obviously), second-best would be Int, then Cha, then Str, then Wiz, and Con would be the least important.
Well, let's look at his powers:
Super-Strength, around the 33-34 range at least.
Super-speed and agility. Most people say his Dexterity should be higher than his Strength. TSR's Marvel SAGA rules had his Strength and Dexterity at 14 (human maximum is 10) but in the Marvel Universe there are a lot more super-strong characters than super-agile characters. By comparison, Captain America was 10, Gambit was 11, Beast was 12, and Nightcrawler was 13. Nothing short of a cosmic-level entity (or Mayday Parker) had an Agility higher than Spider-Man's. I'm comfortable pegging this in the thirties.
His Constitution is likewise outrageous. Look at the beatings he survives, and remember he has a healing factor. Just because he's fast doesn't mean he's not a brick.
His mental scores weren't boosted by the spider bite, but he's an easy candidate for INT in the 18-20 range. Compare him to Reed Richards and Tony Stark, who are described as having outright superhuman intelligence-- he's very nearly on their level and the only thing that's held him back has been spending almost all of his time as Spider-Man. Wisdom and Charisma are between average and low-average; his superhuman willpower is a result of his class levels.
Spider-Sense. This is Improved Evasion and Improved Uncanny Dodge at the very least and quite possibly immunity to surprise as well. I'm tempted to say some sort of INT-based Monk AC bonus is at work here.
The spider-climb is trivial. He's got a racial Climb speed (from the template) and a substantial racial bonus to Acrobatics checks over and above his Dexterity score.
His fighting style screams Flurry of Blows, but he doesn't really have a lot of martial arts training and his unarmed attacks aren't devastating compared to his Strength.
So... some kind of racial template plus a Rogue archetype that switches out Sneak Attack for Flurry of Blows and Monk's AC bonus on INT. Given the things he fights on a regular basis, he's ridiculously high level.
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Well, let's look at his powers:
Super-Strength, around the 33-34 range at least.
Super-speed and agility. Most people say his Dexterity should be higher than his Strength. TSR's Marvel SAGA rules had his Strength and Dexterity at 14 (human maximum is 10) but in the Marvel Universe there are a lot more super-strong characters than super-agile characters. By comparison, Captain America was 10, Gambit was 11, Beast was 12, and Nightcrawler was 13. Nothing short of a cosmic-level entity (or Mayday Parker) had an Agility higher than Spider-Man's. I'm comfortable pegging this in the thirties.
His Constitution is likewise outrageous. Look at the beatings he survives, and remember he has a healing factor. Just because he's fast doesn't mean he's not a brick.
His mental scores weren't boosted by the spider bite, but he's an easy candidate for INT in the 18-20 range. Compare him to Reed Richards and Tony Stark, who are described as having outright superhuman intelligence-- he's very nearly on their level and the only thing that's held him back has been spending almost all of his time as Spider-Man. Wisdom and Charisma are between average and low-average; his superhuman willpower is a result of his class levels.
Spider-Sense. This is Improved Evasion and Improved Uncanny Dodge at the very least and quite possibly immunity to surprise as well. I'm tempted to say some sort of INT-based Monk AC bonus is at work here.
The spider-climb is trivial. He's got a racial Climb speed (from the template) and a substantial racial bonus to Acrobatics checks over and above his Dexterity score.
His fighting style screams Flurry of Blows, but he doesn't really have a lot of martial arts training and his unarmed attacks aren't devastating compared to his Strength.
So... some kind of racial template plus a Rogue archetype that switches out Sneak Attack for Flurry of Blows and Monk's AC bonus on INT. Given the things he fights on a regular basis, he's ridiculously high level.
Well, in current Marvel continuity, he's been trained by Shang-Chi, Iron Fist, Wolverine, and Captain America in hand-to-hand combat, so I'm assuming he's not that bad at it.
I'm not up on the latest incarnation of Spider-man, but going by my memory of his abilities from the 70s-80s...
Spidey has super-human strength, but not super-strength. You could probably peg his str at somewhere in the Storm Giant range. Maybe 26-28.
His constitution would be very high, he's no wolverine but it is canon that he heals much more rapidly than a normal human. Plus he is not merely strong, he can take a punch. His con is not as high as his str, but it's pretty high. Probably 22 or so.
Agility is tricky. Yeah, again he's super-human, but he's not Flash, nor is he even the Beast. Is his agility higher than his str? I don't think so. Heck, even Kingpin, when he was just a big fat dude, could peg Spidey every now and then. So probably about equal to his con. Again I'll go with 22.
Intelligence is top-end human. There is no indication his intelligence was bumped up by the spider bite. And no real rationale why it would have been, so 20 is probably tops.
Wisdom - probably dirt average. Spidey is a lot of things, but "wise" isn't one of them. I'd go with 12 at most. More likely to go with 10.
Charisma - also well within human range. He was supposed to be a nerd, so I'm tempted to say even below average, but I'll say charisma is comparable to wisdom and stick with 10 - 12.
I would put his spidey sense as an extraordinary power and model it after uncanny dodge with some improved evasion thrown in. I'd have to put something in there for tracking too since he uses his spidey-sense to track his little spider-bugs he plants on his enemies.
His webslingers would be crafted items, probably custom ones. No big deal, but perfect for him.
I would put max ranks in bluff.
Now, what class would I make Spidey?
It's hard not to put rogue in there. I'd probably put at least a level or two of ranger. I dunno about monk. Yeah there are some mechanical things about monk that fit (unarmed fighting, for example) but something about the flavor doesn't fit my idea of a wise-cracking, gadget-using, chip-on-his-shoulder smart-ass.
I just can't see putting any spell-casting class in the build, unless it's at levels before they get spells. Spidey just doesn't cast spells.
I'm not up on the latest incarnation of Spider-man, but going by my memory of his abilities from the 70s-80s...
Spidey has super-human strength, but not super-strength. You could probably peg his str at somewhere in the Storm Giant range. Maybe 26-28.
His constitution would be very high, he's no wolverine but it is canon that he heals much more rapidly than a normal human. Plus he is not merely strong, he can take a punch. His con is not as high as his str, but it's pretty high. Probably 22 or so.
Agility is tricky. Yeah, again he's super-human, but he's not Flash, nor is he even the Beast. Is his agility higher than his str? I don't think so. Heck, even Kingpin, when he was just a big fat dude, could peg Spidey every now and then. So probably about equal to his con. Again I'll go with 22.
Intelligence is top-end human. There is no indication his intelligence was bumped up by the spider bite. And no real rationale why it would have been, so 20 is probably tops.
Wisdom - probably dirt average. Spidey is a lot of things, but "wise" isn't one of them. I'd go with 12 at most. More likely to go with 10.
Charisma - also well within human range. He was supposed to be a nerd, so I'm tempted to say even below average, but I'll say charisma is comparable to wisdom and stick with 10 - 12.
I would put his spidey sense as an extraordinary power and model it after uncanny dodge with some improved evasion thrown in. I'd have to put something in there for tracking too since he uses his spidey-sense to track his little spider-bugs he plants on his enemies.
His webslingers would be crafted items, probably custom ones. No big deal, but perfect for him.
I would put max ranks in bluff.
Now, what class would I make Spidey?
It's hard not to put rogue in there. I'd probably put at least a level or two of ranger. I dunno about monk. Yeah there are some mechanical things about monk that fit (unarmed fighting, for example) but something about the flavor doesn't fit my idea of a wise-cracking, gadget-using,...
Liking alot of this, but I'd say martial artist monk actually suits reasonably well, even if he did not have formal training initially. At least 5th level sorcerer with web and spider climb as spells known. Possibly 6th level for haste, since he IS known to be much faster than an average person. A couple of levels in rogue or barbarian for uncanny dodge, and a single level in diviner for the 'forewarned' ability.
Actually, customising slippers of spider climbing to not take up a slot can be done by doubling the cost (subject to GM approval). Ask to be allowed to 'graft' it on to your character (possibly using the ioun stone implantation mechanics from Seekers of Secrets). Tada, permanent spider-climb. =)
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I'm not up on the latest incarnation of Spider-man, but going by my memory of his abilities from the 70s-80s...
Spidey has super-human strength, but not super-strength. You could probably peg his str at somewhere in the Storm Giant range. Maybe 26-28.
His constitution would be very high, he's no wolverine but it is canon that he heals much more rapidly than a normal human. Plus he is not merely strong, he can take a punch. His con is not as high as his str, but it's pretty high. Probably 22 or so.
Agility is tricky. Yeah, again he's super-human, but he's not Flash, nor is he even the Beast. Is his agility higher than his str? I don't think so. Heck, even Kingpin, when he was just a big fat dude, could peg Spidey every now and then. So probably about equal to his con. Again I'll go with 22.
Intelligence is top-end human. There is no indication his intelligence was bumped up by the spider bite. And no real rationale why it would have been, so 20 is probably tops.
Wisdom - probably dirt average. Spidey is a lot of things, but "wise" isn't one of them. I'd go with 12 at most. More likely to go with 10.
Charisma - also well within human range. He was supposed to be a nerd, so I'm tempted to say even below average, but I'll say charisma is comparable to wisdom and stick with 10 - 12.
I would put his spidey sense as an extraordinary power and model it after uncanny dodge with some improved evasion thrown in. I'd have to put something in there for tracking too since he uses his spidey-sense to track his little spider-bugs he plants on his enemies.
His webslingers would be crafted items, probably custom ones. No big deal, but perfect for him.
I would put max ranks in bluff.
Now, what class would I make Spidey?
It's hard not to put rogue in there. I'd probably put at least a level or two of ranger. I dunno about monk. Yeah there are some mechanical things about monk that fit (unarmed fighting, for example) but something about the flavor doesn't fit my idea of a wise-cracking, gadget-using,...
Actually, it's canon that Spidey is much more dexterous than Beast. In his first encounter with the X-Men, he outmaneuvered Hank quite easily. In fact, one of Spidey's great tactics is to hop around his enemies and pick at them until they wear down. It's why Doc Ock has such a difficult time getting ahold of him even with all his lightning-fast tentacles.
Spider-Man plays down his powers a lot because he's terrified of losing his humanity-- or taking on any more responsibility. When he's pushed, he's one of the most dangerous people in the Marvel Universe.
Grenadier Alchemist/Monk could use tanglefoot bags with a ranged weapon for webs and mutagen + monk abilities should be able to get the flavor of his other tricks.
Actually, it's canon that Spidey is much more dexterous than Beast. In his first encounter with the X-Men, he outmaneuvered Hank quite easily. In fact, one of Spidey's great tactics is to hop around his enemies and pick at them until they wear down. It's why Doc Ock has such a difficult time getting ahold of him even with all his lightning-fast tentacles.
One of the great problems with Spiderman "canon" (as well as other superheroes, but Spidey, imho, was always the worst in this regard) is how his abilities scale to adjust to his current needs.
In other words, I've read Spiderman stories where he was pummeled pretty thoroughly by street thugs. Then I've seen him take on Superman one-on-one. He once tackled the entire Avengers and even took Thor's hammer away from him (back in the Doctor Blake days) but within a few issues of that, the lowly "Tarantula" just about cleaned his clock.
I'm going with what I consider to be the default Spiderman abilities that are as close to what he seems to have in the majority of his stories, not what he needs when the writer decides that spidey just has to win, or lose, no matter what.