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Hey guys decided to try a bard for the first time, always liked the class but couldnt get over the singing when yesterday i saw the Archaeologist. So between that and looking at Treantmonk's guide (which sadly didnt cover the archaeologist) figured I would make one up and get any advice you guys might have. Character concept is mainly a jack of all trade (duh) he uses his magic for support spells (along with heals the only other "healer" in the party is a inquisitor) I plan to take every knowledge skill and rotate them. Planning to take the archery tree and planning to take arcane strike by third or fourth lvl and possibly arcane archer by 9th but not sure
Bard/Archaeologist
Str: 14
Dex: 18
Con: 10
Int: 12
Wis: 7
Cha: 15
hp 8
Weapon: shortbow
Feats: point blank and rapid shot
skills disable device 6, knowledge arcana/history/ local/nobles/religion +6 perception +2 spellcraft +5 and use magic devices +6
(next lvl will pick up knowledge dungeoneering/geography/ dungeoneering/ planes/ nature and engineering then rotate every other lvl)
Echoing the above advice. Plus, at early levels, you can't afford the -2 to hit from rapid shot and the -4 for shooting into melee.
Edit: Looking at your stats, I wouldn't dump Wisdom that hard, either. Perception checks are important, especially if you're going to be the one in the party looking for traps (and unless there's a rogue, you should be).
I like the idea of an archer Achaeologist that starts off with a level in Divine Hunter Paladin for the nice +1 BAB to start with and free Precise Shot. You can certainly add a 2nd Pal level later on for +cha to saves, too.
I suggest Fetchling for race. They're really quite awesome.
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Actually, I would go for Rapid Shot over Precise Shot every time. Two shots is twice as many chances to roll high, versus a single shot with less of a penalty.
In the worst case you're a little worse off, but when using Rapid Shot against an opponent not in melee, it's worlds better.
Echoing the above advice. Plus, at early levels, you can't afford the -2 to hit from rapid shot and the -4 for shooting into melee.
Edit: Looking at your stats, I wouldn't dump Wisdom that hard, either. Perception checks are important, especially if you're going to be the one in the party looking for traps (and unless there's a rogue, you should be).
Archaeologists end up having amazing Perception scores, so I don't think the -2 hurts as much as you think it might. It's a trade-off, but not necessarily a poor one.
Wow thanks for the advice, I will definitely have to get Lingering Performance in there somewhere. (didn't realize you cant do two swift actions) Noobie question, could i swap a 5 foot adjustment for another swift action or no? As for the wisdom dump, I'm not overly happy of it either but really needed the points elsewhere. As Mergy pointed out I will make it up in perception (gain 1 extra every other lvl) luckily I get a +2 to will at lvl one as a bard so i end up with a 0 for the save, not great but not -2 (which I wouldn't have dumped so hard then.)
As for what Lightbulb says about the archaeologist, the reason I'm going that way is two reasons... first I can't rp the idea of a guy singing in combat, never clicked for me. Second we currently don't have a rogue and the rogue-like skills i think will be a bonus to the party. I'm trying to play this character as, well a pathfinder, good knowledge skills, ability to open that ancient door (while bypassing the traps) StreamOfTheSky , the Fetchling does look really nice but can you use the race in the society? Also the loss of skill point and extra feat is kind of harsh. The paladin idea is tempting since I have one I played last the other week who made a ton of gold but not sure how i could explain a pally suddenly going bard. Sorry for the rant just wanted to address everything
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Wow thanks for the advice, I will definitely have to get Lingering Performance in there somewhere. (didn't realize you cant do two swift actions) Noobie question, could i swap a 5 foot adjustment for another swift action or no?
No, you cannot. Though note that it's a Free Action, not a Swift to maintain the luck. It's only a Swift to start it. Lingering Performance is still eminently worthwhile, though.
As for what Lightbulb says about the archaeologist, the reason I'm going that way is two reasons... first I can't rp the idea of a guy singing in combat, never clicked for me.
Bards don't have to sing. With Perform (Dance) you can do an elaborate, graceful dance as you fight, or with Perform (Oratory) either recite epic poetry, tell a bit of a story, or shout orders like a drill sergeant, and Perform (Comedy) can easily just be insulting your opponents as you fight ala Spider-Man. Just for the record.
Second we currently don't have a rogue and the rogue-like skills i think will be a bonus to the party. I'm trying to play this character as, well a pathfinder, good knowledge skills, ability to open that ancient door (while bypassing the traps)
That said, all these are actual, good, reasons for choosing Archaeologist. At least potentially.
StreamOfTheSky , the Fetchling does look really nice but can you use the race in the society?
No, you can't. Not without special permission stuff you're not gonna get on this character anyway.
Sorry, you didn't say it was for PFS.
They may open up more once the race book comes out, though.
So really when should i take lingering performance? Thinking lvl 1 is point blank and either precise or rapid shot then at 3rd I'd take the other at 4th i would use rogue talent to pick up arcane strike then at 5th take lingering?
I'm really liking the flavor of the Arcane Strike, just seeing him use his magic for offense only in regards to the bow. Plan to take Deadly aim right after. Just to double check myself (making sure I understand this right) After i use the luck i can coast 2 more rounds without those consuming my daily rounds for luck? Definitely feeling the feat starvation right off =/ Was reading the Why play a bard? board and interesting ideas. I still think I'll stick with the Archaeologist though :)
Not overly familiar with PFS, is Pathfinder delver an option? I'm a big fan of archy 6 / Delver X builds for rogue builds, less magic but more hilarious trap features
Sorry just realized my question wasnt properly worded. Does lingering performance extend the song for 2 rounds without consuming my daily rounds so for example if i use my luck for one round then let it coast for 2 rounds (total 1 use for 3 rounds)
Archaeologists get + 1/2 lvl bonus to perception and disable device, can disable complex things in half the time (min one round) and unlock locks in a standard action. At lvl 6 i can take 10. AND I still get bardic knowledge :) I definitely see see appeal for buffing the whole group but for the flavor of the character i just find this appealing. Hmm the lingering has jumped up in my list just not sure how to get it sooner than lvl 5 =/ Might have to make a sacrifice since it definitely is worth it
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Since your going archaeologist i would also look at the half elf race. It gives you a diferent kind of candy. Yes its one less feat and a skill point every lvl but you already have a lot of skill points and with the APG rules you could trade your favored class option for an extra round of perform every lvl making lingering performance less of a must have.
The racial skill focus could be use to pick up one of the eldritch heritage feat chain or just trade it for longbow proficiency. And if you want to pick up a PrC the adaptability racial trait will keep those favored class bonus coming as you lvl up...
Thought about the half elf but the loss of the extra feat and basically losing 2 skill point per lvl is pretty harsh. Humans can learn extra spells (1 lower than max) in place of the skill or hit point. Hoping to finally get to play this character sun, between work, school and wife I haven't had luck playing him. One problem I noticed though, Does the archaeologist gain class training for disable device? They get a class bonus towards the skill but doesn't look like the skill itself...was there a errata for that?
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Does the archaeologist gain class training for disable device? They get a class bonus towards the skill but doesn't look like the skill itself...was there a errata for that?
No, they don't. And it's intentional, so no errata. I reccomend the Vagabond Child trait (if using Traits), or just chilling and dealing with it if you're not.
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Thought about the half elf but the loss of the extra feat and basically losing 2 skill point per lvl is pretty harsh. Humans can learn extra spells (1 lower than max) in place of the skill or hit point. Hoping to finally get to play this character sun, between work, school and wife I haven't had luck playing him. One problem I noticed though, Does the archaeologist gain class training for disable device? They get a class bonus towards the skill but doesn't look like the skill itself...was there a errata for that?
It's not a class skill for bards. If you wish for it to be a class skill, take the Vagabond Child trait.
Ok...still odd why give you the 1/2 per lvl to disable device and fast but not have them train it? Thanks I'll have to look at that trait
Dang character died in the first adventure, not sure if the adventure was just too hard or what. The Bard was on cure light wound wand duty keeping people up but too much to heal. Still like the concept and since it is the pathfinder society maybe i should try again =/
I would go Lingering ASAP. If you take Point-Blank and Precise/Rapid at first, grab Lingering at third and just wait until 5th to round out your ranged feats. Consider also going Deadly Aim instead of Arcane Strike, simply because it doesn't require a swift action to activate.
You are advising to get both deadly aim and rapid shot before precise shot? I'd advise against this personally, unless you only do minimal shots with a bow at early levels.
I'd get point blank and precise shot at level 1, lingering at level 3, rapid at level 5, deadly or arcane at level 7, many shot at level 9, deadly or arcane (whichever wasn't taken) at level 11.
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If you still want to play a character of this type, consider taking two levels of Fighter first. Doing so will improve your survivability quite a bit. It will solve your feat issue, for sure. You can take Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot and Rapid Shot all at 1st level, Deadly Aim at 2nd, then pick up Arcane Strike at 3rd when you take your first Bard level. Also, if you take the Lore Warden archetype you'll have more skill points and be able to remain true to the character concept. After that, run Bard out to the end.
Normally I wouldn't advise multiclassing with a Bard. However, keeping your character alive is more important than optimization. A dead character is no fun at all.
Interesting you pointed that out Obirandiath was thinking about doing 2 lvls of paladin archer so i would get point blank, precise and rapid at lvl one then get divine grace and lay on hands at lvl two then off to bard. But was thinking that it would be tough to imagine a pally going to bard. The lore warden would be a good match though. Personally I would like to go straight bard but the two runs I've done have been rough (first one with my pally i spent a lot of time near death and this one was a total party wipe) The downside with the fighter though is i would lose on the backup healing. I am really thinking either the mods are too tough or the gm's that are running it are a bit too cut throat. I really do like the flavor of the archeologist Merk, what would you recommend i look at?
Really thinking about doing the the Lore warden now, lvl 1 Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot and rapid shot. Lvl 2 deadly /combat expertise as a bonus...especially if im in trouble(those feats would give me the solid base in archery combat not to mention a longbow) then bard at 3 with lingering song...it's pretty tempting As a bard by lvl 3 I would have point blank, precise and probably lingering song (but at 4th i could take rapid shot) but i would be pretty solid on skills, would get trap sense and uncanny dodge not to mention disable intricate and complex devices in half the normal amount of time (minimum 1 round) and open a lock as a standard action. also i would be one lvl away from 2nd lvl spells and gallant inspiration. I'm stumped basically is it better to be really good at combat from the get go or focus on the support and work my way up to combat (basically by lvl 5 i would have everything the multiclass would have)
Sorry to bring this up again but I played my bard sat and was dubbed "the useless bard" mind you i was in a party with a lvl 4 druid and cleric/rogue along with a gunslinger and another cleric. debating on taking the lore warden at lvl 2 and 3 to get my combat up then go the rest of the way. Thinking of this character as a jack of all trades archer. I know the party was good on heals but i did feel a tad useless. So back to my last question...should i take the lore warden or should i really look at a different bard archtype?
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I wouldn't multiclass with Bard. They lose too much stuff.
Switching to a normal (non-Archetype) Bard is certainly an option...but I'm not sure I'd do so after one session as a 1st level character in association with a couple of 4th levels, including a Rogue (which is the character in competition with this one, role-wise). I'd give it another chance (possibly with a party that doesn't make you useles) before switching things up too much.
Do what I suggested before. Divine Hunter Paladin 1-2 / Archaeologist X. 2nd Paladin level depends on how much you value +cha to saves and can come whenever. 1st Pal level should come right at level 1 to help immediately with the feat burden of archery. You want Lingering Performance at level 3. Fetchling is the ideal race, as before. Human lets you have Point Blank and Rapid Shot right away and also has the nice favored class bonus, so it's a great choice, too.
I really do like the paladin idea but lawful good with a bard is kind of a rough mix. Mechanically I'm with you Stream. What I might just have to do is have two characters and keep the one in case the bard wont be as useful (by lvl 5 I would have decent spells along with point blank, precise, rapid, lingering and either deadly aim or arcane strike)