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If theres any part of the Paizo website that has to be keen on the rules, it's the PFS boards. With that said, I've come up with three questions:
1.Can an Alchemist's Tentacle discovery be used as part of a full attack?
2.Can an Alchemist's Vestigial Arms (assume this has been taken twice) bear additional instances of claws (aka 2 claw attacks on his normal arms, and 2 on his vestigial arms)?
3.Can an Alchemist's Vestigial Arms utilize claw attacks in addition to a humanoid's normal limbs (also with claws) in order to make 4 claw attacks in a full attack?
The basic rules of natural attacks in the CRB leave me confused on the matter. So long as a natural attack has a place to reside on a creature's anatomy, it can be used as a separate instance. In the case of vestigial arms, the arms aren't providing extra attacks, but merely giving additional natural attacks a place to reside on a character. Or do the vestigial arms not allow attacks to reside on them, natural, unarmed, or manufactured, period?
1.Can an Alchemist's Tentacle discovery be used as part of a full attack?
Apparently not
The tentacle does not give the alchemist any extra attacks or actions per round, though he can use it to make a tentacle attack (1d4 damage for a Medium alchemist, 1d3 damage for a Small one) with the grab ability.
2.Can an Alchemist's Vestigial Arms (assume this has been taken twice) bear additional instances of claws (aka 2 claw attacks on his normal arms, and 2 on his vestigial arms)?
No.
The arm does not give the alchemist any extra attacks or actions per round.
RAI it isn't supposed to let you dual wield greatswords either, but
though the arm can wield a weapon and make attacks as part of the alchemist's attack routine (using two-weapon fighting)
leans fairly heavily towards doing just that.
3.Can an Alchemist's Vestigial Arms utilize claw attacks in addition to a humanoid's normal limbs (also with claws) in order to make 4 claw attacks in a full attack?
No. No extra attacks.
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Cheese, cheese, cheese...
They don't give you extra attacks than you could normally get w/ TWF, MWF, and/or iteratives. It's strange, but what can you do?
You would be able to use the vestigial arms to use a manufactured weapon for your normally granted iteratives and then have the original hands deliver claw attacks as secondary natural weapons, at least. You can always on a full attack string naturals at the end of it like that. The probem usually is that your clawed hands were occupied with the weapon and thus are not available.
I think you're better off sticking to just claw/caw/bite with feral mutagen as primaries, though. Maybe later when you've gotten al your needed feats you can grab Multiattack and make the weapon + naturals thing work.
Cheese, cheese, cheese...
No one cares when the eidolon does it. He can add tons of arms, he just has to use weapons to avoid his natural attack limit. And he's pouncing at first level. But gods forbid a class do something anywhere near on par with what a class feature can do...
I would interpret that you could use the tentacle or vestigial arm in a full attack, but not as an extra attack--it would take the place of another attack, similar to how a two-weapon fighter can use an unarmed strike with his foot/head/whatever in place of one of the weapons.
The vestigal arm could technically full attack with a sword, but a tentacle or claw is still bound by the rules of natural weapons, and the rules for natural weapons are no iterative attacks.
The vestigal arm could technically full attack with a sword, but a tentacle or claw is still bound by the rules of natural weapons, and the rules for natural weapons are no iterative attacks.
How does the tentacle work at all, then?
How does the tentacle work at all, then?
Tentacle (Ex): "The tentacle does not give the alchemist any extra attacks or actions per round, though he can use it to make a tentacle attack (1d4 damage for a Medium alchemist, 1d3 damage for a Small one) with the grab ability. The tentacle can manipulate or hold items as well as the alchemist's original arms can (for example, allowing the alchemist to use one hand to wield a weapon, the tentacle to hold a potion, and the third hand to throw a bomb)."
For Tentacle (and Vestigal Arms) consider the maximum number of attacks you could make if you didn't have them. That's the maximum number of attacks you can make. Gaining those discoveries does not change that number.
For instance, say the alchemist with BAB +6/+1 can make three attacks per round. (Making iterative attack with his primary, and using TWF to gain an off-hand attack)
He can instead use his V.arms and tentacle to make those attacks, using whatever those limbs have for weapons.
He could carry a potion in his right hand, wield a heavy shield in his normal left hand, use a longsword in one vestigal arm, a dagger in the other, and have his tentacle attack for 1d4. (Despite using the arms this way not being intended)
the tentacle discovery specifically calls out that it doesn't give you any extra attacks. So, like the wings, you can use it in place of one of your other attacks (the ability description is calling out that you can attack with it because it also has the grab ability, which you wouldn't otherwise know).
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Tentacle (Ex): "The tentacle does not give the alchemist any extra attacks or actions per round, though he can use it to make a tentacle attack (1d4 damage for a Medium alchemist, 1d3 damage for a Small one) with the grab ability. The tentacle can manipulate or hold items as well as the alchemist's original arms can (for example, allowing the alchemist to use one hand to wield a weapon, the tentacle to hold a potion, and the third hand to throw a bomb)."
For Tentacle (and Vestigal Arms) consider the maximum number of attacks you could make if you didn't have them. That's the maximum number of attacks you can make. Gaining those discoveries does not change that number.
For instance, say the alchemist with BAB +6/+1 can make three attacks per round. (Making iterative attack with his primary, and using TWF to gain an off-hand attack)
He can instead use his V.arms and tentacle to make those attacks, using whatever those limbs have for weapons.
He could carry a potion in his right hand, wield a heavy shield in his normal left hand, use a longsword in one vestigal arm, a dagger in the other, and have his tentacle attack for 1d4. (Despite using the arms this way not being intended)
the tentacle discovery specifically calls out that it doesn't give you any extra attacks. So, like the wings, you can use it in place of one of your other attacks (the ability description is calling out that you can attack with it because it also has the grab ability, which you wouldn't otherwise know).
That's not even the ugly part of it, though. For example, say I were to use my legs to make an unarmed strike as part of a full attack. If you could replace an unarmed strike, which would render all natural attacks as secondary, with the tentacle attack, would all of your attacks be considered natural, and hence relegate all of your attacks at their original designation: 2 claws as primary, bite as primary, and tentacle as secondary (according to natural weapons rules, a tentacle attack is considered secondary)?
Is this tentacle even considered a natural weapon? To replace a manufactured weapon attack with a natural attack isn't even touched upon in regards to a full attack.
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Is this tentacle even considered a natural weapon? To replace a manufactured weapon attack with a natural attack isn't even touched upon in regards to a full attack.
It's not very well written.
I think the easiest way to do it is if you're mixing unarmed/manufactured weapon attacks with the tentacle, then all the natural attacks are secondary, including the tentacle.
If all you're attacking with is natural attacks, then they're all whatever type of attack they are (primary/secondary).
How does the tentacle work at all, then?Tentacle (Ex): "The tentacle does not give the alchemist any extra attacks or actions per round, though he can use it to make a tentacle attack (1d4 damage for a Medium alchemist, 1d3 damage for a Small one) with the grab ability. The tentacle can manipulate or hold items as well as the alchemist's original arms can (for example, allowing the alchemist to use one hand to wield a weapon, the tentacle to hold a potion, and the third hand to throw a bomb)."
For Tentacle (and Vestigal Arms) consider the maximum number of attacks you could make if you didn't have them. That's the maximum number of attacks you can make. Gaining those discoveries does not change that number.
For instance, say the alchemist with BAB +6/+1 can make three attacks per round. (Making iterative attack with his primary, and using TWF to gain an off-hand attack)
He can instead use his V.arms and tentacle to make those attacks, using whatever those limbs have for weapons.
He could carry a potion in his right hand, wield a heavy shield in his normal left hand, use a longsword in one vestigal arm, a dagger in the other, and have his tentacle attack for 1d4. (Despite using the arms this way not being intended)
the tentacle discovery specifically calls out that it doesn't give you any extra attacks. So, like the wings, you can use it in place of one of your other attacks (the ability description is calling out that you can attack with it because it also has the grab ability, which you wouldn't otherwise know).
That's what I was trying to convey; the tentacle would not be an extra attack; it would simply be an option for one of your existing attacks. Thanks for the citation; I knew I'd read an SKR post on the subject at some point.